Hello everyone,
we have received approval for a plot of land through the "local resident model" in a rather rural area about 50km (30 miles) from Munich and are planning to build a solid wood house on it. The carpenter responsible has provided the attached initial proposal, which is largely based on our specifications and drawing. We will suggest some changes but are already curious to hear your opinions. The interior work will mainly be contracted to familiar craftsmen, while windows, hardwood flooring, kitchen, doors, and joinery work will be done by a family member as own labor.
Regarding the drawing: The south side (top of the drawing) faces the garden.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 560sqm (6,028 sq ft)
Slope: none
Building window, building line, and boundary
Edge development
Number of parking spaces: 2
Roof type: 0.5m (20 inches) gable, minimum 23° roof pitch
Style: red roof tiles
Maximum heights: 6.50m (21 ft) eaves height
Requirements of the Builders
Style, roof shape, building type: low roof pitch, photovoltaic; ground floor + garage plastered, upper floor/gable wooden cladding
Basement, floors: no basement, high knee wall or 2 full floors (currently 2 full floors)
Number of occupants, age: 2 adults, no children yet (later 2-3), currently both full-time employed, later full-time + part-time
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: later the upper floor should be separable as a separate apartment, the lower office/guest room will then become the bedroom
Office: family use or home office? Planned 1-3 days home office per week for at least one person
Guests per year: 1-2 times for about one week each
Open or closed architecture: mostly open towards south and west (towards garden)
Conservative or modern style: the development plan rather requires a classic house shape, interior design should be more modern. However, no overly open design, e.g., no staircase visible from the living room. Kitchen should be separable from living area by sliding door, kitchen island desired.
Number of dining seats: 6 in the living/dining area
Fireplace: not planned initially, but a chimney will be installed
Music/speaker wall: no priority
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: garage, due to two cars and no basement. Will be built from wood by the carpenter at the same time as the house.
Additional wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why certain things should or should not be included:
House Design
Who designed it: mostly self-designed, drawn by planner/carpenter with minor changes
What do you like most? Why?
What do you dislike? Why? The exterior still looks quite plain; on the upper floor, we want to replace the floor-to-ceiling windows with elongated horizontal windows.
Price estimate according to architect/planner: Land 150,000€ (commitment from municipality, no fixed price yet), house currently estimated 400,000–450,000€
Personal total budget, including fittings: 650,000€
Preferred heating technology: heat pump (ground probe or air-water still unclear) with storage
If you have to give up, on which details/extensions
-can you give up: later extension of bathroom/children's room on first floor, exterior landscaping, wooden cladding on first floor.
-can you not give up: kitchen, garage should be kept if possible
we have received approval for a plot of land through the "local resident model" in a rather rural area about 50km (30 miles) from Munich and are planning to build a solid wood house on it. The carpenter responsible has provided the attached initial proposal, which is largely based on our specifications and drawing. We will suggest some changes but are already curious to hear your opinions. The interior work will mainly be contracted to familiar craftsmen, while windows, hardwood flooring, kitchen, doors, and joinery work will be done by a family member as own labor.
Regarding the drawing: The south side (top of the drawing) faces the garden.
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 560sqm (6,028 sq ft)
Slope: none
Building window, building line, and boundary
Edge development
Number of parking spaces: 2
Roof type: 0.5m (20 inches) gable, minimum 23° roof pitch
Style: red roof tiles
Maximum heights: 6.50m (21 ft) eaves height
Requirements of the Builders
Style, roof shape, building type: low roof pitch, photovoltaic; ground floor + garage plastered, upper floor/gable wooden cladding
Basement, floors: no basement, high knee wall or 2 full floors (currently 2 full floors)
Number of occupants, age: 2 adults, no children yet (later 2-3), currently both full-time employed, later full-time + part-time
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: later the upper floor should be separable as a separate apartment, the lower office/guest room will then become the bedroom
Office: family use or home office? Planned 1-3 days home office per week for at least one person
Guests per year: 1-2 times for about one week each
Open or closed architecture: mostly open towards south and west (towards garden)
Conservative or modern style: the development plan rather requires a classic house shape, interior design should be more modern. However, no overly open design, e.g., no staircase visible from the living room. Kitchen should be separable from living area by sliding door, kitchen island desired.
Number of dining seats: 6 in the living/dining area
Fireplace: not planned initially, but a chimney will be installed
Music/speaker wall: no priority
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: garage, due to two cars and no basement. Will be built from wood by the carpenter at the same time as the house.
Additional wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why certain things should or should not be included:
House Design
Who designed it: mostly self-designed, drawn by planner/carpenter with minor changes
What do you like most? Why?
What do you dislike? Why? The exterior still looks quite plain; on the upper floor, we want to replace the floor-to-ceiling windows with elongated horizontal windows.
Price estimate according to architect/planner: Land 150,000€ (commitment from municipality, no fixed price yet), house currently estimated 400,000–450,000€
Personal total budget, including fittings: 650,000€
Preferred heating technology: heat pump (ground probe or air-water still unclear) with storage
If you have to give up, on which details/extensions
-can you give up: later extension of bathroom/children's room on first floor, exterior landscaping, wooden cladding on first floor.
-can you not give up: kitchen, garage should be kept if possible
C
Costruttrice21 Apr 2022 10:04I also think the floor plan should be thoroughly revised. To me, it seems like the open-plan living area was placed across the entire width facing south, and all the other desired rooms were simply arranged around it. It has already been pointed out that the kitchen layout with those distances doesn’t work. I also believe the office is not really suitable as a future bedroom, while the hallways are excessively large.
Perhaps the intention is to have two equally sized bedrooms upstairs. However, if there are going to be three children, it seems odd that one child’s room is almost twice as large as another’s.
We worked on the floor plan ourselves alongside the architect, which was fun, of course. But in the end, we realized that the architect is the expert, not us… Maybe you should also have someone trained take a look at it.
A plot near Munich at that price is certainly a stroke of luck, but I still think the budget won’t be sufficient. The geothermal heat probe can probably be ruled out right away.
Perhaps the intention is to have two equally sized bedrooms upstairs. However, if there are going to be three children, it seems odd that one child’s room is almost twice as large as another’s.
We worked on the floor plan ourselves alongside the architect, which was fun, of course. But in the end, we realized that the architect is the expert, not us… Maybe you should also have someone trained take a look at it.
A plot near Munich at that price is certainly a stroke of luck, but I still think the budget won’t be sufficient. The geothermal heat probe can probably be ruled out right away.
Bockwurst1 schrieb:
Plot size 560 sqm (6028 sq ft)Oh, so the green area on the plans really represents the entire plot, and between the terrace and the fence there is only a narrow path to the "garden" (?) ... in that case, the king-size house doesn't really stand out :-(https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
B
Bockwurst121 Apr 2022 14:0611ant schrieb:
Oh, so the green area on the drawings seriously means the entire property, and between the terrace and the fence there is really only a narrow strip for access to the "garden" (?) ... then the king-size house doesn’t really come into its own :-(No, the property is actually significantly larger than the green area, especially to the south (window front of the kitchen-living area).
Costruttrice schrieb:
I also think the plan needs to be fundamentally revised. To me, it seems like the open-plan room was placed across the full width because of the south-facing side, and all other desired rooms were somehow arranged around it. It’s already been mentioned that the kitchen won’t work with the given distances. I also don’t think the office really works well as a future bedroom, and at the same time the hallways are excessively large.
Maybe the idea is to have two equally sized bedrooms upstairs. But if there will be three children, it seems odd that one child has almost twice the room size as another.
We were also tinkering with the floor plan ourselves alongside the architect, just for fun. But in the end, we accepted that he is the expert, not us... Maybe you should have someone with training look at it as well.
A property near Munich is of course a stroke of luck at that price, but I also believe the budget won’t be enough. You can probably forget about geothermal probes. Thank you very much for your opinions. Both the size of the footprint and the proportions, especially upstairs, have indeed gotten a bit out of hand. So far, this is only what we received back from the draftsman and not a final design. The purpose of this post was also to collect additional opinions for the discussion of the design. The originally intended size was closer to 170sqm (1825 sqft) and without a full upper floor; I think we will end up in that range again.
Hausbautraum20 schrieb:
I don’t like the room layout upstairs either.
One child gets 12sqm (130 sqft) and the other 23sqm (248 sqft)?
I thought 650k might be enough for the house, but with the land, never in a million years.
Friends of ours (we also live 50km (30 miles) from Munich) got offers for a 200sqm (2150 sqft) timber frame house (turnkey), and it came to 700k. Solid wood construction is even more expensive. 650,000€ is indeed the planned maximum budget for house and land, but we do have some additional buffer if necessary. Since, as mentioned, we are not building turnkey and will do a significant amount of the interior work ourselves, that saves us a bit. If the budget gets tight, for example, we would postpone finishing the upstairs bathroom.
The separation of the upper floor was originally only intended as an option in about 25 years, which would of course require structural adjustments then.
We would really appreciate more constructive criticism than just “haphazardly thrown together” 😉
What alternative do you see, for example, to the layout of the living area, which you think is too long? The purpose of the sliding door was to make it separable, so I don’t quite understand why the proportions seem off here. We already planned to reduce the hallway width a bit; the open space to the right of the entrance was intended for the wardrobe.
F
Fuchsbau3521 Apr 2022 14:35Your open-plan living-dining area plus kitchen (the kitchen island is much too close to the kitchen wall units) reminds me of the layout typical for a terraced house. We are actually building something like that, and in our case, the living room width is at least 5.5m (18 feet), with a total length from the kitchen to the terrace of about 11m (36 feet). Still, it feels like a narrow corridor. Without the constraints typical for terraced housing, I would at least plan the living area to be wider. Perhaps an L-shaped layout.
Bockwurst1 schrieb:
The originally planned size was closer to 170 sqm (1,830 sq ft) We already discussed this recently:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/kosten-architektenplanung-50-teurer-als-abgesprochen.42805/
In general terms, it could probably be summed up as: "an inexperienced planner lets the house size get out of hand" 🙂
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
I personally don’t think the design is bad at all.
However, the kitchen worklines are, as mentioned before, definitely too narrow! There should be at least 1.2 m (4 feet) of clearance.
Of course, you can reduce “unused” space, but if you value having generous hallways and bedrooms and the budget allows, why not go for it.
However, the kitchen worklines are, as mentioned before, definitely too narrow! There should be at least 1.2 m (4 feet) of clearance.
Of course, you can reduce “unused” space, but if you value having generous hallways and bedrooms and the budget allows, why not go for it.
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