ᐅ Finding Tiles from Other Manufacturers / Selecting Finishes with the Developer
Created on: 31 May 2011 11:10
P
plastikjoe
Hello everyone,
I’m new here and happy that there is a forum like this!
I’m currently selecting finishes for my house, specifically the tiles. The developer has recommended two large tile specialty stores for choosing the tiles—what I would call the top of the line! We visited the first one and liked some tiles, but some prices were above the developer’s budget limit.
For the living room, we picked Italian tiles called Ciliegio, priced at 58 € per square meter (about $58 per square yard). The price is steep, and the budget is almost used up! Are there similar tiles with this type of wood grain pattern from other manufacturers that you know of?
Does anyone know if it’s possible to choose a tile store on your own through the developer, one that fits your budget? For example, you could buy tiles from hardware stores, which are much cheaper and look similar.
From my perspective, the tile selection process is a bit strange because we are given a maximum price limit, but then the prices offered at the tile specialty stores are typical retail prices. The developer’s tiler then orders the selected tiles and probably pays a lot less since they buy in large quantities. He keeps the discount, and we have to buy the expensive tiles from the specialist store. Is this normal?
I hope I was able to explain this clearly.
Thank you
I’m new here and happy that there is a forum like this!
I’m currently selecting finishes for my house, specifically the tiles. The developer has recommended two large tile specialty stores for choosing the tiles—what I would call the top of the line! We visited the first one and liked some tiles, but some prices were above the developer’s budget limit.
For the living room, we picked Italian tiles called Ciliegio, priced at 58 € per square meter (about $58 per square yard). The price is steep, and the budget is almost used up! Are there similar tiles with this type of wood grain pattern from other manufacturers that you know of?
Does anyone know if it’s possible to choose a tile store on your own through the developer, one that fits your budget? For example, you could buy tiles from hardware stores, which are much cheaper and look similar.
From my perspective, the tile selection process is a bit strange because we are given a maximum price limit, but then the prices offered at the tile specialty stores are typical retail prices. The developer’s tiler then orders the selected tiles and probably pays a lot less since they buy in large quantities. He keeps the discount, and we have to buy the expensive tiles from the specialist store. Is this normal?
I hope I was able to explain this clearly.
Thank you
B
Bauexperte26 Sep 2011 11:34Hello Homebuilders,
No, I don’t think so, because...
Yes, I do understand what you mean. You get this cost transparency when you manage the trades yourself, meaning when you build with an architect. Question: why didn’t you choose that route if the actual costs of the individual trades are so important to you?
There are indeed parallels, and they mainly depend on the path you choose. Building with an architect means selecting every trade yourself (multiplying times three if you want decent transparency) and thus getting the kind of itemized trade cost breakdown you want, but there’s no fixed price. (If there is, the architect is legally treated like a construction manager/general contractor and liable for all trades, which rarely happens.)
Building with a general contractor (GC) either in stages or turnkey means mixed pricing (reliable GCs will still show individual material prices, e.g., for tiles and sanitary fixtures, and will answer pricing questions about trades, but not fully transparent), however, with guaranteed fixed prices according to their general terms and conditions.
Then you should not have chosen to build with a GC but rather with an architect! It seems you want the security/warranty/fixed price of a GC but still keep the option to pick and choose the best parts, in the hope of “taking the good stuff and ditching the bad.”
Sorry, you are opening a side issue here. Even with potentially dishonest contractors, you have the possibility to review the payment plan beforehand and check the company. No one forces you to sign the contract presented; you remain in control of your choices.
A quick note from my years in this business: except for very few exceptions, this only happens to homeowners who are willing to ignore every obvious warning sign in the offer (where any reasonable person can tell that something is wrong).
So you have sorted those providers out—what’s the problem then? By the way, 57–60% is realistic for the closed shell construction. Since you have a legal right to terminate your GC at any time, you have enough funds in reserve to complete your house if needed.
Again, there is no one-size-fits-all solution—either you decide to work with an architect, accepting the risk of exceeding your budget but gaining full cost control, or you choose a GC with a fixed price guarantee, knowing you will need additional reserves to realize any extra wishes if the offered standard is not enough. By the way, for some homeowners both options lead to the same result.
For my part, I can tell you that I do not sell anything to my clients below the closed shell construction stage, and I therefore would not specify the price for the foundation slab separately, since I would never remove that service from the contract. I recommend clients who argue otherwise in personal discussions to opt for working with an architect—they will be better off and ultimately happier.
Kind regards
Häuslebauer40 schrieb:
Bauexperte, I think we are talking past each other.
No, I don’t think so, because...
Häuslebauer40 schrieb:
What’s the problem with saying that the house costs, for example, 250,000 EUR, and this amount is broken down as follows:
- foundation slab
- shell construction
- screed
- interior finishing
- tiles
- plumbing
- etc.
Do you see what I mean? I’m not interested in purchase prices, but in the actual value of each trade’s completed work.
Yes, I do understand what you mean. You get this cost transparency when you manage the trades yourself, meaning when you build with an architect. Question: why didn’t you choose that route if the actual costs of the individual trades are so important to you?
Häuslebauer40 schrieb:
Since building a house is unquestionably a craft-based service, there should be parallels here.
There are indeed parallels, and they mainly depend on the path you choose. Building with an architect means selecting every trade yourself (multiplying times three if you want decent transparency) and thus getting the kind of itemized trade cost breakdown you want, but there’s no fixed price. (If there is, the architect is legally treated like a construction manager/general contractor and liable for all trades, which rarely happens.)
Building with a general contractor (GC) either in stages or turnkey means mixed pricing (reliable GCs will still show individual material prices, e.g., for tiles and sanitary fixtures, and will answer pricing questions about trades, but not fully transparent), however, with guaranteed fixed prices according to their general terms and conditions.
Häuslebauer40 schrieb:
When I buy a complete house, no one tells me what the shell construction, doors, and windows cost; as I said, not purchase prices, but the value of the completed work.
Then you should not have chosen to build with a GC but rather with an architect! It seems you want the security/warranty/fixed price of a GC but still keep the option to pick and choose the best parts, in the hope of “taking the good stuff and ditching the bad.”
Häuslebauer40 schrieb:
The more I have to deal with this topic, the clearer it becomes why this is the case. Because many house offers would be rejected in advance and a quick calculation already shows that the payment plan stipulated in the construction contract is often designed to the disadvantage of the homeowner, even though all GCs and prefabricated house suppliers are well aware that, according to the building code or VOB (where applicable), they are expected to provide services in advance.
Sorry, you are opening a side issue here. Even with potentially dishonest contractors, you have the possibility to review the payment plan beforehand and check the company. No one forces you to sign the contract presented; you remain in control of your choices.
Häuslebauer40 schrieb:
With non-transparent fixed price offers and corresponding payment plans, it’s easy to turn the tables and make the homeowner pay upfront without them noticing.
A quick note from my years in this business: except for very few exceptions, this only happens to homeowners who are willing to ignore every obvious warning sign in the offer (where any reasonable person can tell that something is wrong).
Häuslebauer40 schrieb:
Don’t get me wrong, Bauexperte. I’m not saying everyone does this, but during the planning phase I’ve looked at enough offers, contracts, and payment plans from both smaller and well-known providers. And quite a few stood out where the payment plan didn’t correspond to the construction progress or the value of the work completed. When I asked questions like how much the shell construction is worth and whether 60% of the house price wasn’t a bit too much, evasive answers came and attempts to dodge the question like a slippery eel…
So you have sorted those providers out—what’s the problem then? By the way, 57–60% is realistic for the closed shell construction. Since you have a legal right to terminate your GC at any time, you have enough funds in reserve to complete your house if needed.
Again, there is no one-size-fits-all solution—either you decide to work with an architect, accepting the risk of exceeding your budget but gaining full cost control, or you choose a GC with a fixed price guarantee, knowing you will need additional reserves to realize any extra wishes if the offered standard is not enough. By the way, for some homeowners both options lead to the same result.
For my part, I can tell you that I do not sell anything to my clients below the closed shell construction stage, and I therefore would not specify the price for the foundation slab separately, since I would never remove that service from the contract. I recommend clients who argue otherwise in personal discussions to opt for working with an architect—they will be better off and ultimately happier.
Kind regards
H
Häuslebauer4026 Sep 2011 16:06Construction expert, from my point of view, these are all purely theoretical considerations because I am not doing anything in EGL anyway.
That’s why I don’t pick and choose either.
As you already said, I am the master of my decisions, so I weighed both options (architect / general contractor).
To put it in the words of an unsuspecting builder:
You have to choose between the plague and cholera.
But seriously, I consciously chose the general contractor because it is important to me to have only one point of contact in case of defects or other claims. If you look into the legal situation when it comes to enforcing defect claims in single trade contracts, it can easily make your hair stand on end, and in the worst case, it can become a nasty trap.
I accepted the less transparent arrangement for that reason. Of course, I reviewed the payment schedule and had it adjusted accordingly.
That’s why I don’t pick and choose either.
As you already said, I am the master of my decisions, so I weighed both options (architect / general contractor).
To put it in the words of an unsuspecting builder:
You have to choose between the plague and cholera.
But seriously, I consciously chose the general contractor because it is important to me to have only one point of contact in case of defects or other claims. If you look into the legal situation when it comes to enforcing defect claims in single trade contracts, it can easily make your hair stand on end, and in the worst case, it can become a nasty trap.
I accepted the less transparent arrangement for that reason. Of course, I reviewed the payment schedule and had it adjusted accordingly.
Similar topics