ᐅ Extension and Vertical Addition to a 1965 Existing Building
Created on: 17 Mar 2021 21:31
C
Christian_p
Hello everyone,
my name is Christian, and I have been reading this forum for some time now. Since my plans are becoming more concrete, I am now making my first post.
I have the opportunity to take over my parents' house, and they would continue living there.
The house dates from 1965 but does not offer enough space for all of us, so I have the following ideas, always assuming that the renovation is approved. Of course, I will ask for permission before detailed planning, but for now, I need some help brainstorming.
The house currently has one and a half stories plus a basement. The basement ceiling is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) higher than the garden, and the knee wall on the upper floor is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) high, resulting in a noticeable roof slope.
The ground floor, which would serve as a separate apartment for my parents, currently has a kitchen, pantry, living room, dining room, and bathroom—unfortunately one room too few, so an extension here would be ideal.
If there is going to be an extension, ideally it would be two stories to create an additional room upstairs as a study or guest room. The extension would best be attached to one of the two gable ends (approximately 9 meters (30 feet) long). A timber extension would appeal to me.
However, to ultimately create the desired space for our family of four, an additional story would also be necessary. I am considering either a flat roof or a hipped roof so that another floor with a bathroom and three bedrooms can be added without much increase in height. Currently, there is an attic above the upper floor that is about 2.5 meters (8 feet 2 inches) high in the center, but in its current state, it would only provide space for a bedroom and bathroom at most.
Regardless of approval and structural considerations, I have the following questions:
1. Since the basement protrudes about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) above ground level, a quite high foundation would need to be built for the extension to align with the existing floor level. Would it make sense, for a bit more money, to also have a basement under the extension?
2. Does anyone have experience with how an additional story with a new roof might look in this case? Would the roof with the attic be removed down to the knee wall and rebuilt? That would mean removing all interior walls on the first floor as well?
3. Does anyone possibly have other suggestions on how to realize this?
An extension along the side wall would also be possible, but that would reduce the garden space in the area where it is most used.
For better understanding, I have attached a 3D sketch, although it is not yet fully to scale.
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Christian
my name is Christian, and I have been reading this forum for some time now. Since my plans are becoming more concrete, I am now making my first post.
I have the opportunity to take over my parents' house, and they would continue living there.
The house dates from 1965 but does not offer enough space for all of us, so I have the following ideas, always assuming that the renovation is approved. Of course, I will ask for permission before detailed planning, but for now, I need some help brainstorming.
The house currently has one and a half stories plus a basement. The basement ceiling is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) higher than the garden, and the knee wall on the upper floor is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) high, resulting in a noticeable roof slope.
The ground floor, which would serve as a separate apartment for my parents, currently has a kitchen, pantry, living room, dining room, and bathroom—unfortunately one room too few, so an extension here would be ideal.
If there is going to be an extension, ideally it would be two stories to create an additional room upstairs as a study or guest room. The extension would best be attached to one of the two gable ends (approximately 9 meters (30 feet) long). A timber extension would appeal to me.
However, to ultimately create the desired space for our family of four, an additional story would also be necessary. I am considering either a flat roof or a hipped roof so that another floor with a bathroom and three bedrooms can be added without much increase in height. Currently, there is an attic above the upper floor that is about 2.5 meters (8 feet 2 inches) high in the center, but in its current state, it would only provide space for a bedroom and bathroom at most.
Regardless of approval and structural considerations, I have the following questions:
1. Since the basement protrudes about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) above ground level, a quite high foundation would need to be built for the extension to align with the existing floor level. Would it make sense, for a bit more money, to also have a basement under the extension?
2. Does anyone have experience with how an additional story with a new roof might look in this case? Would the roof with the attic be removed down to the knee wall and rebuilt? That would mean removing all interior walls on the first floor as well?
3. Does anyone possibly have other suggestions on how to realize this?
An extension along the side wall would also be possible, but that would reduce the garden space in the area where it is most used.
For better understanding, I have attached a 3D sketch, although it is not yet fully to scale.
Thanks in advance for your advice,
Christian
Christian_p schrieb:
There is no exterior wall insulation installed yet. What do you mean by mandatory? When renovating, or when applying for funding? If you make more than minor changes to the facade, which would include an additional floor or an extension, you will be required to comply with the current energy saving regulations. This means exterior wall insulation will be necessary, with all the associated benefits, drawbacks, and costs.
Christian_p schrieb:
On the ground floor, I don’t want to move any load-bearing walls; the outer wall is already set slightly inward. Or do you mean another one? Somewhere I thought I saw a shifted wall.
Christian_p schrieb:
After all, it is a renovation and not a new build. Surely you are not just planning a renovation. Adding another floor or an extension is more expensive than a new build! You might not need a new bathroom now or could save elsewhere, but you still have to calculate with around 2000€ / m² (approximately 185 $ / ft²) of living space, plus additional construction overhead, planning fees, etc. The more I think about it, I would mentally start planning with a budget of 300,000€.
Christian_p schrieb:
My parents would continue living there. I hope they are on board with all the planning and understand that they will likely need to move into a temporary rental or holiday apartment for six months or longer.
Tassimat schrieb:
I thought I saw an offset wall somewhere.In the new upper floor in the kitchen / dining area.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
C
Christian_p25 Mar 2021 20:48Hello again,
yes, I actually moved a wall on the upper floor. I wasn’t sure whether it is load-bearing or, if the roof is redone, whether this wall remains load-bearing or if the roof can be supported differently.
I hadn’t come across that regarding the facade until now.
Regarding costs, you’re not giving me much hope ;-) Let’s see what the local companies say.
yes, I actually moved a wall on the upper floor. I wasn’t sure whether it is load-bearing or, if the roof is redone, whether this wall remains load-bearing or if the roof can be supported differently.
I hadn’t come across that regarding the facade until now.
Regarding costs, you’re not giving me much hope ;-) Let’s see what the local companies say.
Christian_p schrieb:
Yes, I actually moved a wall on the upper floor. I wasn’t sure if it’s load-bearing or, if the roof is redone, whether that wall will still be load-bearing or if the roof structure can be supported differently. It’s not load-bearing but rather a bracing wall – and in my opinion, as planned, it cannot be replaced. The problem here is exactly the lack of separate consideration of the floor structure and the roof frame, and the roof load can’t be transferred differently in connection with the non-load-bearing wall below the ridge – unless, of course, you switch to a truss roof, but that would mean giving up the use of the attic as living space.
Christian_p schrieb:
Regarding costs, you’re not giving me much hope ;-) Let’s see what the local contractors say. You can always repaint a Golf I – but only in the case of a GTI with a verifiable famous previous owner will it make sense. If you’re attached to the house, go for it – but it’s definitely a project for the architectural firm Pyrrhus & Varus.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Christian_p schrieb:
If you’re going to extend, ideally it should be two stories, so that an additional room can be created upstairs as a study or guest room. Christian_p schrieb:
Since the house has a shared stairwell, everything should be planned so that, if necessary, it can be converted into three separate apartments. So once again the jack-of-all-trades, which means the charm will be lost, right...?
I find the idea quite appealing, even though I always tend to visually classify these two-story extensions as multi-family dwellings.
A couple of years ago someone here had to expand a standard gable roof house because of twins. @11ant probably still has the link?!
Christian_p schrieb:
Ideally, it shouldn’t cost more than 200,000 Euros, including finishing work. I don’t see that happening. Never. I’m not a cost expert, but I’ve built a house myself and have been actively following the forum for years.
Demolishing the roof plus installing a new roof structure plus external thermal insulation, plus a second floor, plus a two-level extension... that easily adds up to 300,000 Euros or more.
Personally, I find it rather impractical for a family to have a stairwell outside the living area. It divides the space. Arguments in favor of additional later living units are not really desirable. Who knows what will come later? You want to live comfortably now, not compromise.
I also see the problem with such conversions that as a layperson, planning options are very limited because you don’t know what’s feasible or possible. The result is often an awkward block, because walls are just stuck onto walls.
If I were you, I would take the time to work with an architect instead of continuing to tweak the “multi-story extension.”
ypg schrieb:
A couple of years ago, someone here had to extend a standard gable roof house because of twins. @11ant surely still has the link?!He does, and just linked it there on Tuesday: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/planung-efh-3-kinder-und-keller.38595/page-5#post-482896 – by the way, it was actually for triplets. ypg schrieb:
I don’t see it. Never.At least the naive budget expectation explains why the suggested alternative is not “seen.” ypg schrieb:
If I were you, I would take the time to consult with an architect.An architect is only helpful here if you don’t just expect plans from them, but also take their advice to spare the house the contortion with the added intermediate floor (which would have required executing my suggestion of a rental apartment). The house, as it currently stands, is not a fast mover by design; it was built before today’s tastes as a quirky little cottage with a raised ground floor – although it has the unique selling point compared to most of its peers to offer a decent knee wall height (homes of that era mostly have dormers and knee walls in the attic). If you now turn it into a tower, it will lose its charm in the eyes of this already narrow target group and move into the category of “completely unsellable.” That means if you really invest a lot of money now – and I also see this (even as a non-cost expert) starting at a three-digit figure – you have to pray to see the full repayment date, because a future buyer will probably only be interested in the land. Saying I have “little hope” regarding costs was actually putting it mildly. That’s why I also added the reference to Pyrrhus and Varus.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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