Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
Teemoe86 schrieb:
How much is the additional cost for the fresh water station? I read in posts from 2010 that it would only provide about 40°C (104°F). That would definitely be too low for me – especially if you want to wash something by hand in the kitchen.I can’t say anything about the costs, but I can comment on the hot water temperature.
To operate the heat pump efficiently, the hot water temperature should be kept as low as possible.
What temperature are you aiming for?
We currently have 43 degrees Celsius (109°F) in our hot water tank and that works very well for us.
If I want to wash something with hot water, I use the kettle.
Another advantage of the lower temperature is that children can’t scald themselves anymore.
The hotter the water, the better for washing dishes. Especially grease and stuck-on food are easier to remove with hot water.
Currently, we live in a condominium where the kitchen tap is unfortunately 12m (39 feet) away from the hot water recirculation line. It takes forever for truly “hot” water to come through. In my opinion, it takes even more than 30 seconds here, although the building was completed in 2017. :/
Since we have coated frying pans and, as a two-person household, don’t always want to run the dishwasher just for a few other pots or pans when it’s essentially empty, in our previous apartment we used to run the hot water for 5 seconds and could quickly rinse a pot we needed with hot water. For coated pans, for example, dish soap is often not very beneficial. So right now, it’s quite inconvenient when we need hot water again. Grease dissolves less effectively at only 43°C (109°F) — and some heat is also lost while the water is on its way.
But somehow this is getting off-topic...
I have no idea what the best solution for us will be. I read elsewhere that air-to-water heat pumps now meet the requirements better. Whether a ground source heat pump makes sense for us, with an additional cost of around 10,000, probably less so.
Currently, we live in a condominium where the kitchen tap is unfortunately 12m (39 feet) away from the hot water recirculation line. It takes forever for truly “hot” water to come through. In my opinion, it takes even more than 30 seconds here, although the building was completed in 2017. :/
Since we have coated frying pans and, as a two-person household, don’t always want to run the dishwasher just for a few other pots or pans when it’s essentially empty, in our previous apartment we used to run the hot water for 5 seconds and could quickly rinse a pot we needed with hot water. For coated pans, for example, dish soap is often not very beneficial. So right now, it’s quite inconvenient when we need hot water again. Grease dissolves less effectively at only 43°C (109°F) — and some heat is also lost while the water is on its way.
But somehow this is getting off-topic...
I have no idea what the best solution for us will be. I read elsewhere that air-to-water heat pumps now meet the requirements better. Whether a ground source heat pump makes sense for us, with an additional cost of around 10,000, probably less so.
S
Strahleman3 Jun 2020 16:52Teemoe86 schrieb:
In general, there are likely fewer problems if you don’t have a circulation line to begin with (and if you do have one, definitely don’t turn it off...) and if the volume is lower. That’s correct. Without circulation and with low water volume in the pipes (max. 3 liters (0.8 gallons), see the 3-liter rule), the design is optimal.
Teemoe86 schrieb:
If it really only costs about 2,000 more because of the BAFA subsidy not applying with the air-to-water heat pump, switching to a ground-to-water heat pump might make sense for me. Is that realistic? You can calculate the expected annual performance factor on the heat pump manufacturer’s website (just add a “de” at the end of the URL) – also for an air-to-water heat pump. The database includes many pumps, and this calculation is accepted by BAFA as well (installers usually use this website). If you get a figure above 4.5, then you can also qualify for the subsidy with an air-to-water heat pump.
Our original offer was 43,000 Euro for an air-to-water heat pump with controlled ventilation. With the ground-to-water heat pump, the total is now about 48,000 Euro (including the horizontal ground collector). The air-to-water heat pump would not have qualified for the subsidy, but the ground-to-water heat pump including controlled ventilation does. However, you should calculate whether the air-to-water heat pump would actually qualify and whether a good system design is possible (or at which outdoor temperature the air-to-water heat pump becomes inefficient).
Teemoe86 schrieb:
How much is the extra cost for the fresh water station? I read in posts from 2010 that it only reaches about 40°C (104°F). That would definitely be too low for me – especially if you want to wash something by hand in the kitchen. It depends. A heat pump-compatible fresh water station from “Technische Alternative” or “Oventrop” costs about 1,500 Euro online, plus installation costs. The water storage tank (ideally a stratified buffer tank; in your case, about 500 liters (130 gallons) should be sufficient) costs around 800 to 1,200 Euro depending on the required size.
T
T_im_Norden3 Jun 2020 18:39Just so you know, grease is much easier to remove with a paper towel and cold water.
Only for the final rinse can you use hot water.
Only for the final rinse can you use hot water.
We are about to decide on a ground source heat pump for our house in Baden-Württemberg. What have been your experiences with the passive cooling function of ground source heat pumps?
I am interested in the NOVELAN SICV (H3 / K3) and wanted to know how satisfied you are with it. Is the additional cost of over 3,000 worth it?
Do you run 19-20°C (66-68°F) cold water through the underfloor heating in summer? For that, I assume I need a dew point sensor in one room of the house. Or is it necessary in every room?
Thank you very much for sharing your experiences.
** You can’t really go wrong with the NOVELAN SICV H3 / K3, right?
I am interested in the NOVELAN SICV (H3 / K3) and wanted to know how satisfied you are with it. Is the additional cost of over 3,000 worth it?
Do you run 19-20°C (66-68°F) cold water through the underfloor heating in summer? For that, I assume I need a dew point sensor in one room of the house. Or is it necessary in every room?
Thank you very much for sharing your experiences.
** You can’t really go wrong with the NOVELAN SICV H3 / K3, right?
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