Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
Yes, frequent water changes are indeed the best way to prevent legionella.
Why does that benefit the efficiency of the heat pump? If I have a 260-liter (69-gallon) tank heated, it will stay warm longer than a 180-liter (47-gallon) one because there is more thermal mass to retain the heat. And if I only use 160 liters (42 gallons) from the 260-liter tank, the new 100 liters (26 gallons) are easily warmed by the remaining 160 liters (42 gallons). With the 180-liter tank, it’s empty, and I have to heat completely fresh/cold water from “0 to 100.” Or am I missing something here?
I’m looking for a brine-to-water heat pump that can be controlled together with a mechanical ventilation with heat recovery system. This is because the mechanical ventilation system is also eligible for subsidies from BAFA when controlled in this way. So far, in my research, I’ve only come across Alpha Innotec/Nibe, which offer joint control of the heat pump and the mechanical ventilation system (with an enthalpy heat exchanger), making the ventilation system and all accessories eligible for BAFA subsidies. Are you aware of any others?
(It does have disadvantages, though—for example, if the heat pump control fails, the mechanical ventilation system can no longer be controlled either, but in my opinion the cost advantage outweighs this.)
Why does that benefit the efficiency of the heat pump? If I have a 260-liter (69-gallon) tank heated, it will stay warm longer than a 180-liter (47-gallon) one because there is more thermal mass to retain the heat. And if I only use 160 liters (42 gallons) from the 260-liter tank, the new 100 liters (26 gallons) are easily warmed by the remaining 160 liters (42 gallons). With the 180-liter tank, it’s empty, and I have to heat completely fresh/cold water from “0 to 100.” Or am I missing something here?
I’m looking for a brine-to-water heat pump that can be controlled together with a mechanical ventilation with heat recovery system. This is because the mechanical ventilation system is also eligible for subsidies from BAFA when controlled in this way. So far, in my research, I’ve only come across Alpha Innotec/Nibe, which offer joint control of the heat pump and the mechanical ventilation system (with an enthalpy heat exchanger), making the ventilation system and all accessories eligible for BAFA subsidies. Are you aware of any others?
(It does have disadvantages, though—for example, if the heat pump control fails, the mechanical ventilation system can no longer be controlled either, but in my opinion the cost advantage outweighs this.)
S
Strahleman9 May 2020 00:37annab377 schrieb:
I am looking for a ground-source heat pump that can be controlled together with a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery. This way, the mechanical ventilation system is also eligible for funding from BAFA. So far, in my research, only Alpha Innotec/NIBE appeared, offering a combined control of the heat pump and mechanical ventilation system (with an enthalpy heat exchanger), so that the ventilation system and all accessories are also subsidized by BAFA. Do you know of any others? Stiebel Eltron also offers a combined solution. In addition, there are statements here and on the pink forum that devices linked via KNX are also eligible for BAFA funding.
In the end, we decided on the package from NIBE, mainly due to the technical specifications of the heat pump, as it has a very low flow rate and can therefore perfectly charge a stratified storage tank for a domestic hot water station.
Okay, thanks. Can Stiebel Eltron be recommended as much as NIBE?
With a stratified storage tank, you basically have a type of buffer tank, but you can or should actually do without one when using a brine-to-water heat pump (the screed acts as the storage). Because a domestic hot water station is not practical with a heat pump without a buffer tank, right?
With a stratified storage tank, you basically have a type of buffer tank, but you can or should actually do without one when using a brine-to-water heat pump (the screed acts as the storage). Because a domestic hot water station is not practical with a heat pump without a buffer tank, right?
annab377 schrieb:
Yes, frequent water changes are indeed the best way to prevent legionella.
But why would that reduce the efficiency of the heat pump? If I have a 260-liter (69-gallon) tank heated, it will stay warm longer than a 180-liter (47-gallon) one because there is much more thermal mass to retain the heat. And if I only use 160 liters (42 gallons) from the 260, the new 100 liters (26 gallons) of cold water can be easily warmed by the remaining 160 liters. With the 180-liter tank, it’s empty, and I have to heat fresh, cold water from zero up to the set temperature. Or am I missing something here?
I’m looking for a brine-to-water heat pump that can be controlled together with a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery. This is important because the mechanical ventilation system is also eligible for subsidies from BAFA when controlled together with the heat pump. So far, in my research, only Alpha Innotec and NIBE seem to offer combined control of the heat pump and the mechanical ventilation system (with an enthalpy heat exchanger), which means that the ventilation system and all related equipment qualify for BAFA funding. Do you know of any other options?
(It does have some downsides, of course — if the heat pump control fails, I can’t control the mechanical ventilation system either — but in my opinion, the cost benefits outweigh this.)Which NIBE model (heat pump + mechanical ventilation system) is that?There are several types and possible configurations.
The controlled residential ventilation system is connected to the heat pump (these are two separate units), but the heat pump’s control unit regulates both devices. This setup is supported by BAFA, and you can include the controlled ventilation system along with ducts and related components in the application. The main requirement is the joint control of both systems.
See https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/stiebel-Solewasserwärmepumpe-vs-wolf-monoblock-welche-kwl.34579/
The controlled residential ventilation system is connected to the heat pump (these are two separate units), but the heat pump’s control unit regulates both devices. This setup is supported by BAFA, and you can include the controlled ventilation system along with ducts and related components in the application. The main requirement is the joint control of both systems.
See https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/stiebel-Solewasserwärmepumpe-vs-wolf-monoblock-welche-kwl.34579/
@Strahleman this was definitely not meant as an attack or criticism.
During my planning phase, I have mainly been reading here in the forum, and it is almost always recommended not to install a buffer tank with a heat pump anymore, because the screed layer of the underfloor heating is considered to act as a buffer.
Of course, you can do it as you like. Maybe there are specific reasons why you consciously chose a layered storage tank. Probably the domestic hot water station, which is not practical without a buffer tank when using a heat pump, right?
During my planning phase, I have mainly been reading here in the forum, and it is almost always recommended not to install a buffer tank with a heat pump anymore, because the screed layer of the underfloor heating is considered to act as a buffer.
Of course, you can do it as you like. Maybe there are specific reasons why you consciously chose a layered storage tank. Probably the domestic hot water station, which is not practical without a buffer tank when using a heat pump, right?
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