ᐅ Excessive Costs for the Kitchen?!

Regarding your employer: you can do one thing without neglecting the other. It’s not just black and white.

I don’t personally know any employed tradespeople (the construction phase hasn’t started yet), but I am aware of statistics showing a rising wage level across all industries in the last 10-12 years (since the last major crisis). That’s exactly my point—the individual case is irrelevant for the economy as a whole.

The skilled trades are desperately looking for new workers, and that is not (only) due to poorer salary prospects. In fact, this alone contradicts the claim that the trades in Germany are dying out because so much work is outsourced abroad.

Sorry, that was a harsh and unnecessary jab—I was just caught up in speculating. Good thing you can still take it with a sense of humor.

I’m familiar with the statistics as well. However, they are closely linked to the negotiations of the trade unions.
I also don’t know any tradesperson who earns remotely close to my salary, even though their hard work certainly justifies it and they deserve more than I do.
Who nowadays would willingly spend 8 hours on the roof in all kinds of weather for a net pay of 2000 (currency) when they could earn much more working in an office...

Of course, I take it with humor! Laughing generates warmth through abdominal muscle activity.

Alessandro schrieb:

Do you want to dissect every EXAMPLE I list down to the smallest detail?

If you are personally affected, you quickly get upset... I find such judgmental examples about economically disadvantaged people unfair, especially since they cannot defend themselves here. Go out on the street and say it to their face.......

Alessandro schrieb:

IF EVERYONE THOUGHT LIKE THIS FREEGAN, OUR ECONOMY WOULDN’T WORK!

And if everyone did the work you do or thought like you, would the world work then?? We are a social community where a person’s "value" is not measured by their economic contribution; you benefit from this just like the freegan, each in their own way. At least that’s the basic idea of our society.
I actually believe that you can often learn far more from people who are stranded or act “uneconomically” than from a calculator. Unfortunately, that was forgotten during the reunification as well — that you can always learn something from others. I’ve met enough know-it-alls!

Alessandro schrieb:

The freegan just didn’t get it!

Maybe they understand better than you can imagine. In such "underprivileged" social groups, you usually find far more useful practical intelligence than where people assume they were born with it by the truckload.

Alessandro schrieb:

I have nothing against welfare recipients or these freegans.

... then just save yourself those cheap examples at their expense....... You wouldn’t want to hear them about yourself or your family either.
Unless welfare recipients are forbidden from participating here in the forum.
Then we can continue with the actual topic......

Tolentino schrieb:

It’s actually interesting why there isn’t a bigger market for used kitchens. Someone should come up with an idea to combine many used kitchens to fit new spaces. The countertop could still be new, though...

There is a market, but mostly not in new build planning. Even though you sometimes read that the "old" kitchen is taken along from the apartment, there are plenty of people who wouldn’t post something like that here.

pagoni2020 schrieb:

That’s why the Ritter family is well-known... from TV, with the leather sofa...

I actually had to google that family first... because I don’t have a leather sofa.

Tolentino schrieb:

I don’t personally know any employed craftsmen yet (the construction phase hasn’t started), but I do know statistics showing rising wage levels over the last 10–12 years (since the last major crisis), across all industries.

It’s about time you start building so you can get some direct contact yourself.

Nice-Nofret schrieb:

I installed Metod in my pantry – the 80cm (31.5 inch) drawers are sagging; the quality does NOT compare to a proper kitchen. I have a direct comparison.

Thanks for your input. I experienced exactly the same.

Sparfuchs_ schrieb:

We went to the showroom with a budget of €10,000 (about USD 11,000). Häcker Classic, cooking island, standard laminate countertop... we ended up at €11,500 (about USD 12,650) including electrical appliances. So it is possible to get cheaper than €20,000 (about USD 22,000).

That was our experience as well. €10,000 (about USD 11,000) was our cited budget. The salesperson’s breakdown: €5,000 (about USD 5,500) for the cabinets, €5,000 for the appliances, and we managed that.

pagoni2020 schrieb:

...I’m finally going to cut open my mango.

Enjoy, if that’s appropriate to say. I’ve avoided mangoes and avocados for a year now.

ypg schrieb:

Such options do exist. However, they’re rarely considered in new construction planning. Even though sometimes you hear that the "old" kitchen from the apartment is taken along—there are plenty of people who wouldn’t share something like that here.

Really? But on a commercial scale? So there are providers who buy kitchens and then put together a kitchen tailored to the individual from the individual elements? That’s what I meant, and that would also be suitable for new build projects—at least technically, without considering the preferences of the homeowners.
Unfortunately, my wife categorically rejected that. She even forbade me from looking at showroom kitchens.

ypg schrieb:

It’s about time you start building so you can get direct contact as well

Yes, indeed! At least the demolition is already done:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/lage-stadtvilla-oder-efh-auf-500-m2-rechteck.33505/post-442751

But the demolition crew acted more like machine operators causing destruction than skilled craftsmen!

ypg schrieb:

Same situation for us. We mentioned €10,000, and the seller replied: €5,000 for the furniture, €5,000 for the appliances, we can manage that.

Whenever I brought up that figure, I just got eye rolls or sighs with shaking heads—often even before they saw a floor plan.
Maybe it’s a problem specific to capital cities.

Tolentino schrieb:

Seriously? But on a commercial level? So there are providers who buy kitchens and then assemble a kitchen tailored to your needs from individual components?

Haha... completely unrealistic!

There’s a whole other world alongside home builders and property owners – which is what @Alessandro was referring to – and by the way, he even corrected himself right away, saying you should remove H4 and replace it with some.
These "some" are actually quite a few. But they also buy secondhand. There are furniture warehouses or secondhand markets where you can find these. They even call themselves social thrift stores.
These depend on homeowners, renovators, or people clearing out apartments who want to get rid of their kitchens without making a profit. Often, household clearances are offered by people with limited means. For a small fee, the above-mentioned buyers can get rid of bulk from deep in basements, and the clearers keep whatever they find. They usually find a lot more than we see because the furniture, including kitchen furniture, is often not even old yet.
Or the renovators give away this still-good furniture for free. Often, renovators or homebuilders want to make an extra thousand on their used kitchen priced at around 3000€ (about $3200), which of course is not realistic. If that extra thousand doesn’t change hands, people often end up destroying their furniture because if they can’t make money from it, no one will take it. But more and more often, people shy away from the dismantling and offer it to the city, the municipality, or a household clearance service instead.
At social thrift stores, everyone can shop for very little money. You and your spouse, too. You probably don’t like that idea since even an off-the-shelf kitchen wouldn’t be an option…
More and more, not only the "some" go to these stores. There are often also (older) people who earn so little that buying a new stove or a necessary kitchen unit is not possible. Or migrants and their descendants (which you’re not supposed to say anymore :eek ) often rely on these products because they have hardly any budget. Yes, there are many people who don’t even own a fitted kitchen. Let alone a dishwasher or a range hood. Far more than you might think, and we don’t see them. At least I don’t. And I would never buy a used kitchen. I’d rather buy a piece of furniture. That I’ve done several times already. Flea markets used to be very popular.
...
I would like to say this in Polish now, but I don’t know Polish
(I hope you know the show with the mouse 😉)

Tolentino schrieb:

When I said that, all I got was eye rolls or silent head shakes. Even before they had seen any floor plan.
Maybe that’s a problem in the capital city.

Maybe it’s simply that a fitted kitchen of average quality is not enough for your "standard."