ᐅ Evaluation of the KfW 60 House Contract: Loan Assessment for Home Purchase
Created on: 2 Jun 2009 10:46
C
CmajereHello,
It looks like we will be building our dream home together with a developer. I would like to share some key points from the contract here and ask you to critically evaluate them based on your experience.
It will be a KfW 60 generational house (granny flat for parents) with 180 sqm (approximately 1,937 sq ft) of living space and about 300 sqm (approximately 3,229 sq ft) of land. Thermal insulation certificate from 2002 (is 2002 still acceptable? Does it qualify for NRW loans / subsidies?)
The house will be built without a basement; earthworks are included in the scope of work.
The foundation slab will be made of reinforced concrete, 15 cm (6 inches) thick according to structural engineering.
Construction will use either calcium silicate blocks (CSB) or Poroton bricks, 17.5 cm (7 inches) thick (non-load-bearing walls 11.5 cm (4.5 inches)), with the developer leaning more towards CSB (is that cheaper?)
The roof frame will be made of impregnated softwood, crafted by a carpenter according to DIN 68800 T3 (wood preservation standard).
The ground floor ceiling will be a prefabricated reinforced concrete slab, finished ready for painting. (Does that mean the joint grooves are already filled and smooth?)
The upper floor ceiling will be constructed with collar beams and have gypsum board cladding on the underside, ready for wallpaper. (Does this also mean it is fully joint-filled?)
The heating system will be a ground-source (brine/water) heat pump with a 150-liter (40 US gallons) hot water storage tank. (Is that sufficient for one family of three plus a couple of guests, so five users in total?)
Screed work: 9 cm (3.5 inches) insulation / foil with perimeter insulation strips / 6 cm (2.5 inches) heated screed with steel reinforcement. (Does this mean tiles can be laid directly on top?)
All masonry walls will receive a single layer of machine-applied gypsum plaster plus necessary corner protection beads to prepare for a coat of paint. (Does this mean the walls are ready for wallpaper, or is further finishing required?)
The exterior plaster will be an insulation plaster 12 cm (5 inches) thick with a white mineral top coat plus profiles according to the thermal insulation calculations.
Tiling will be done in the hallway, wardrobe, kitchen, dining area, WC, and bathroom using a thin-bed method. (What exactly is thin-bed tiling?)
Thank you very much in advance.
It looks like we will be building our dream home together with a developer. I would like to share some key points from the contract here and ask you to critically evaluate them based on your experience.
It will be a KfW 60 generational house (granny flat for parents) with 180 sqm (approximately 1,937 sq ft) of living space and about 300 sqm (approximately 3,229 sq ft) of land. Thermal insulation certificate from 2002 (is 2002 still acceptable? Does it qualify for NRW loans / subsidies?)
The house will be built without a basement; earthworks are included in the scope of work.
The foundation slab will be made of reinforced concrete, 15 cm (6 inches) thick according to structural engineering.
Construction will use either calcium silicate blocks (CSB) or Poroton bricks, 17.5 cm (7 inches) thick (non-load-bearing walls 11.5 cm (4.5 inches)), with the developer leaning more towards CSB (is that cheaper?)
The roof frame will be made of impregnated softwood, crafted by a carpenter according to DIN 68800 T3 (wood preservation standard).
The ground floor ceiling will be a prefabricated reinforced concrete slab, finished ready for painting. (Does that mean the joint grooves are already filled and smooth?)
The upper floor ceiling will be constructed with collar beams and have gypsum board cladding on the underside, ready for wallpaper. (Does this also mean it is fully joint-filled?)
The heating system will be a ground-source (brine/water) heat pump with a 150-liter (40 US gallons) hot water storage tank. (Is that sufficient for one family of three plus a couple of guests, so five users in total?)
Screed work: 9 cm (3.5 inches) insulation / foil with perimeter insulation strips / 6 cm (2.5 inches) heated screed with steel reinforcement. (Does this mean tiles can be laid directly on top?)
All masonry walls will receive a single layer of machine-applied gypsum plaster plus necessary corner protection beads to prepare for a coat of paint. (Does this mean the walls are ready for wallpaper, or is further finishing required?)
The exterior plaster will be an insulation plaster 12 cm (5 inches) thick with a white mineral top coat plus profiles according to the thermal insulation calculations.
Tiling will be done in the hallway, wardrobe, kitchen, dining area, WC, and bathroom using a thin-bed method. (What exactly is thin-bed tiling?)
Thank you very much in advance.
There are probably better experts here, but I’ll give it a try.
Hope this helps a little.
How about sanitary and electrical installations? Is everything included that you need? Additional sockets and switches can quickly add up to a four-digit amount.
Cmajere schrieb:
Hello,
it looks like we will be building our dream house together with a developer. I would like to share some key points from the contract here and ask you to critically evaluate them based on your experience.
It will be a KfW 60 generation house (granny flat for parents) with 180 sqm (approximately 1,940 sq ft) living space on about 300 sqm (approximately 3,230 sq ft) of land. Thermal insulation certificate from 2002 (is 2002 still acceptable? Does this qualify for NRW loans?)
I don’t know — more interesting would be the U-values of the building components or, if available, a weighted average U-value for the entire construction. The Energy Saving Ordinance 2009 came out this year. KfW 60 alone doesn’t say much; it only refers to primary energy consumption.
It will be built without a basement, earthworks are included in the scope of work.
Base slab made of reinforced concrete, 15 cm thick (6 inches) according to structural calculations.
20 cm (8 inches) would be better (rigid slab or strip foundations?)
Construction will be with KSV or Poroton bricks, 17.5 cm (7 inches) thick (non-load-bearing walls 11.5 cm (4.5 inches)), with the developer leaning more towards KSV (is that cheaper?)
KSV is cheaper with the same wall thickness, depending on the type of brick. KSV can be easier and cheaper to work with, especially regarding electrical and plumbing installation as well as plastering.
Roof frame made of impregnated softwood, crafted using traditional carpentry techniques, manufactured according to DIN 68800 part T3.
(Small tip: The higher the snow load, the higher the quantity and usually the quality of the wood in the roof.)
Ground floor ceiling is made of precast reinforced concrete elements. The ceiling is to be delivered ready for painting. (does this mean the grooves are filled?)
Usually yes — better to have it confirmed in writing.
The upper floor ceiling is constructed with collar beams and has a gypsum board (plasterboard) underside, suitable for wallpaper (does this mean it’s fully finished and filled?)
“Suitable for wallpaper” usually means quality level Q1, which is not very smooth — it goes up to Q4. You can look this up online. It’s also important to know if fiberglass tape strips were used.
Heating system is a ground source water-to-water heat pump with a 150-liter (40-gallon) hot water tank. Is this sufficient for one family (3 people) plus one elderly couple, so 5 users total?
In my opinion, that’s too small — 300 to 400 liters (80 to 105 gallons) would be better.
Screed work consists of 9 cm (3.5 inches) insulation/foil with edge insulation strips, and 6 cm (2.5 inches) of heated screed with steel reinforcement. (Can tiles be installed directly on this?)
Tiles can always be installed on screed after proper preparation, meaning priming and if necessary, liquid waterproofing.
All masonry walls receive one coat of gypsum plaster applied by machine, plus necessary corner protection strips to prepare for painting. (Are these ready for wallpapering, or is further finishing required?)
After priming, wallpapering is possible.
Exterior plaster is an external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) with a 12 cm (5 inch) thickness and mineral-based top coat in white, plus profiles according to thermal insulation calculation.
I’m not very convinced of thermal insulation plaster, and combined with 17.5 cm (7 inch) masonry, it doesn’t seem very well insulated to me.
Tiles will be installed in the hallway, cloakroom, kitchen, dining area, WC, and bathroom using thin-bed mortar. (What is thin-bed?)
Thin-bed refers to the method of applying the adhesive. There is also thick-bed and medium-bed. Not important for you — thin-bed is the standard method.
Thank you very much in advance
Hope this helps a little.
How about sanitary and electrical installations? Is everything included that you need? Additional sockets and switches can quickly add up to a four-digit amount.
Hello, thanks for your assessment.
All plumbing is included, as well as tiling. According to the current floor plan, we have 3 sanitary rooms, which is one too many. Two on the ground floor (guest toilet + bathroom) and one upstairs for the children. Otherwise, I find the distribution of sockets, etc., to be sufficient. I will probably convert the lower guest toilet into the electrical/heat pump room.
What surprises me is that KfW 60 is said to be irrelevant? I always assumed that if it says KfW 60, the insulation must meet those standards, regardless of whether the builder uses KSV (calcium silicate blocks) or Poroton bricks — that's their choice.
Although, based on my research online, I actually prefer KSV for its simplicity and sound insulation. (Regular wall plugs and that’s it ^^).
What exactly does KfW 60 energy-efficient house mean? The building specification states "thermal insulation verification according to the Energy Saving Ordinance 2002." Is that outdated, and should I insist on a more recent regulation?
Thanks, best regards
Edit:
The foundation will be built as follows: B25 frost-resistant concrete. Reinforced concrete slab, 15 cm (6 inches) thick. Foundation earthing installed according to applicable VDE regulations. The top edge of the concrete slab will be 10 cm (4 inches) above the existing ground level.
All plumbing is included, as well as tiling. According to the current floor plan, we have 3 sanitary rooms, which is one too many. Two on the ground floor (guest toilet + bathroom) and one upstairs for the children. Otherwise, I find the distribution of sockets, etc., to be sufficient. I will probably convert the lower guest toilet into the electrical/heat pump room.
What surprises me is that KfW 60 is said to be irrelevant? I always assumed that if it says KfW 60, the insulation must meet those standards, regardless of whether the builder uses KSV (calcium silicate blocks) or Poroton bricks — that's their choice.
Although, based on my research online, I actually prefer KSV for its simplicity and sound insulation. (Regular wall plugs and that’s it ^^).
What exactly does KfW 60 energy-efficient house mean? The building specification states "thermal insulation verification according to the Energy Saving Ordinance 2002." Is that outdated, and should I insist on a more recent regulation?
Thanks, best regards
Edit:
The foundation will be built as follows: B25 frost-resistant concrete. Reinforced concrete slab, 15 cm (6 inches) thick. Foundation earthing installed according to applicable VDE regulations. The top edge of the concrete slab will be 10 cm (4 inches) above the existing ground level.
KfW refers specifically to the primary energy demand, meaning the portion of energy derived from coal, oil, gas, electricity, etc. It has little to do with the heating energy demand.
That is why many KfW 60 houses can be converted into KfW 40 by integrating a pellet heating system. However, this does not mean the insulation is better.
I only realized this myself after studying our thermal protection certificate and its calculation closely. To be honest, there are many adjustment factors with which a house can be made to look more energy efficient on paper.
That is why the U-value and the average U-value are more relevant than the "KfW" rating. The building form and solar orientation, along with insulation, also play a crucial role in the actual energy consumption.
The heating energy demand is standardized at 19°C (66°F), which many consider too cold, and so on.
Currently, starting from autumn, the 2009 Energy Saving Ordinance applies – which is a difference of about 7 years.
That is why many KfW 60 houses can be converted into KfW 40 by integrating a pellet heating system. However, this does not mean the insulation is better.
I only realized this myself after studying our thermal protection certificate and its calculation closely. To be honest, there are many adjustment factors with which a house can be made to look more energy efficient on paper.
That is why the U-value and the average U-value are more relevant than the "KfW" rating. The building form and solar orientation, along with insulation, also play a crucial role in the actual energy consumption.
The heating energy demand is standardized at 19°C (66°F), which many consider too cold, and so on.
Currently, starting from autumn, the 2009 Energy Saving Ordinance applies – which is a difference of about 7 years.
Hello,
I’ve just been reading a bit more about the old KfW 60 standard and the new KfW 70 efficiency house. It’s still completely unclear to me. I will ask my builder about it again.
Since we are using a ground-source heat pump and have 17.5 cm (7 inches) exterior walls with 12 cm (5 inches) of thermal insulation plaster, we should easily qualify as a KfW 70 efficiency house (29.5 cm (12 inches) total exterior wall thickness), thus meeting the 2007 Energy Saving Ordinance. I need to discuss this again and include it accordingly in the construction contract.
Best regards
I’ve just been reading a bit more about the old KfW 60 standard and the new KfW 70 efficiency house. It’s still completely unclear to me. I will ask my builder about it again.
Since we are using a ground-source heat pump and have 17.5 cm (7 inches) exterior walls with 12 cm (5 inches) of thermal insulation plaster, we should easily qualify as a KfW 70 efficiency house (29.5 cm (12 inches) total exterior wall thickness), thus meeting the 2007 Energy Saving Ordinance. I need to discuss this again and include it accordingly in the construction contract.
Best regards
Hello Cmajere,
I completely agree with Jörg on this.
Currently, construction must comply with the applicable Energy Saving Ordinance 2007 (Energieeinsparverordnung), and work is already underway on the next stage, the Energy Saving Ordinance 2009.
This means that all new buildings have been required to meet these standards since October 1, 2007. For every new residential building, the builder must provide the client with the corresponding energy performance certificate. (See also my post from April 24, 2009, regarding your question: "Buying a house instead of building?!").
Has your developer been out of touch in recent years?
Just as a side note: Since July 2001, concrete has been designated with "C" (for the English word "concrete") instead of "B" according to DIN 1045-1. A former B25 corresponds roughly to the current C25/30.
I completely agree with Jörg on this.
Currently, construction must comply with the applicable Energy Saving Ordinance 2007 (Energieeinsparverordnung), and work is already underway on the next stage, the Energy Saving Ordinance 2009.
This means that all new buildings have been required to meet these standards since October 1, 2007. For every new residential building, the builder must provide the client with the corresponding energy performance certificate. (See also my post from April 24, 2009, regarding your question: "Buying a house instead of building?!").
Has your developer been out of touch in recent years?
Just as a side note: Since July 2001, concrete has been designated with "C" (for the English word "concrete") instead of "B" according to DIN 1045-1. A former B25 corresponds roughly to the current C25/30.
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