ᐅ Energy management systems and control of washing machines, dryers, and the property

@blubbernase

It’s not simple either... and generally, once the house is built, the opportunity is gone. You can clearly see that from the reactions here.

Depending on what has been installed, it can mean a lot of additional equipment, up to (to put it exaggeratedly) two mouse clicks and three wires to the device.

WilderSueden schrieb:

It would be new to me that anything special is managed there except the battery, which tries to charge itself when there is expected to be excess input and is otherwise regulated down.

Yes, exactly, you are describing the function being discussed here. In your case, the surplus goes into the battery instead of to consumer XY.

Additionally, there is a Battery Management System (BMS) which balances your battery, etc. It won’t work without it and it’s required anyway. Without it, the battery would fail faster than you might expect. Therefore, a BMS is nowadays an essential component in every phone or laptop.

Mycraft schrieb:

@Hangman
Thinking way too complicated.

At the moment, I’m not completely convinced that manually switching based on sunlight is really more complicated than 😎 :

Mycraft schrieb:

This is done with intelligent energy management or demand-driven consumption control, etc. ... To distribute the sometimes fluctuating energy from on-site energy generation in the building according to demand or to store it and achieve maximum efficiency, an overarching intelligence for controlling the energy supply is needed—namely an energy management system ... based on analyzing measurement results, measures can be taken to save energy. The core functionality lies in the fully automatic regulation of energy flows within the building.

For this purpose, the energy management system records the heat and electricity demand of all consumers in the building and directs energy generators such as combined heat and power units, heat pumps, etc. on how much power to produce. Heat and electricity storage units are charged or discharged as needed. Taking into account a weather forecast, it can be prioritized which energy producers supply energy over certain periods of the day.

Mycraft schrieb:

It depends on the device and the energy management system; there’s simply no one-size-fits-all solution.

Mycraft schrieb:

BSH offers Home Connect, Samsung calls it Smart Control, and so on. But every device can be adjusted (configured).
...
You can choose how it should be controlled: timers, apps, phone, displays, fully autonomous and automatic, by gesture, voice, or even smoke signals. Nowadays, there are almost limitless options. Location-based control, i.e., based on where you are, is also no problem.

Mycraft schrieb:

Explaining exactly how all this works would go beyond the scope here... The same applies to household appliances, which can sometimes make systems like Home Connect more of a hindrance. Of course, it doesn’t work out-of-the-box, and you need someone who knows what they’re doing. An amateur with a Wi-Fi plug won’t get very far. Professional expertise is usually required for energy management anyway, because working with electricity directly is not allowed without qualification.

Mycraft schrieb:

That’s why I’m saying there has to be a concept for the entire building and not just something that requires "special" sockets.
...
Hmm, do you want to know the names of interfaces and protocols? Like RS232, RS485, JTAG, etc.? These are widely known, but handling them often requires formal training.

Mycraft schrieb:

Software updates, manufacturer/communication interfaces, hidden menus, and so on—that’s also true for white goods, projectors, A/V receivers, and so forth.
...
Sure, these are included. But they are unknown to the typical user or protected against remote access. Although not always. Besides, the average Joe lacks the tools and experience.

Joking aside. Of course, all this applies to large consumers like hotels, office complexes, swimming pools, etc. But in the context of a single-family home and a basic washing machine, it is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Additionally, washing machines/dishwashers/dryers are particularly poor use cases because these devices inherently require manual intervention and their usage and consumption profiles aren’t really variable or controllable (for example, you can’t pre-wash dishes excessively to use them multiple times).

In a typical single-family home, the forecast-based options mentioned by @Zubi123 and @kati1337 with photovoltaic managers to optimize heat pumps, hot water, electric vehicles, and possibly batteries are standard features of all proper photovoltaic managers and are therefore very easy to use. Anything else is a lot of effort for little benefit.

WilderSueden schrieb:

Energy management might be somewhat more efficient, but to recover the initial investment, a large family would probably need to do laundry for decades.

That’s exactly the point. You first have to invest €5000 (fictional number) to save €3.38 per month.

These are probably also the ones who drive 1 km (0.6 miles) to the bakery with a “2-liter (0.5 gallon) diesel” car…

Hangman schrieb:

At the moment, I’m not entirely convinced that manually switching on devices based on sunlight is really more complicated than 😎 :

No one has to be convinced here. This thread is, once again, full of misunderstandings.

The initial question was:

How do you control or switch on your washing machine, dryer, or dishwasher when you want to specifically use photovoltaic energy? What control or energy management systems are available for this? What are the interfaces called from common appliance manufacturers?

If you find it convenient to operate the devices completely manually, then you can do so. No one is going to forbid you, especially not in your own home… and if you prefer to do that at night with an ice cream in hand, that’s just fine.

However, that doesn’t change the fact that the technology and options are already available, and we are heading towards a world where demand-based consumption will sooner or later be a given or basic expectation.

And there are also homeowners who want to make use of all that technology.

Hangman schrieb:

In the context of a single-family home and a simple washing machine, that’s like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

No, that’s not entirely true. The sledgehammer is already there and will come into play whether you want it or not if you want to have photovoltaic panels, because somehow you have to balance the electricity from the roof with the electricity from the outlet.

Hangman schrieb:

In a typical single-family home, there are the forecast-based options for photovoltaic managers mentioned by @Zubi123 and @kati1337 to optimize heat pumps, hot water, electric cars, and possibly batteries. This function is standard on all sensible photovoltaic managers and therefore quite easy to use. Everything else is a lot of effort for little benefit.

I’ll rewrite this for you to sound clearer:

In a typical single-family house, there are the forecast-based options mentioned by @Zubi123 and @kati1337 for photovoltaic managers to optimize heat pumps, hot water, electric vehicles, and possibly batteries. This feature is standard on all well-designed photovoltaic managers and is therefore quite straightforward to use. This is the first step in implementation, and everything else is then a breeze since photovoltaic managers already include most of the necessary technology. Whether you actually need and use it is up to each individual.

driver55 schrieb:

That’s exactly the point. You first have to invest $5000 (fictional figure) to save $3.38 per month.

Isn’t that actually the purpose and justification for photovoltaic systems on a “normal” single-family house?

But again: with photovoltaic systems, whether you like it or not and whether you think it’s good or not, you need some sort of energy management. Then you can follow the path all the way through. The child is already in the well. Once you have photovoltaics, the leap is no longer a leap, but just a single step, if not even just half a step.

Of course, you need to choose a system that is mature and developed enough so that the components don’t cost an arm and a leg.

WilderSueden schrieb:

Can you go into more detail? We are building with 40+, including battery and photovoltaic. But as far as I know, there isn’t any special management besides the battery, which tries to charge itself when there is likely to be excess feed-in, and otherwise it would be curtailed.

We also have 40+ and with a battery, that’s really not a problem. From March to October, we had over 90% self-sufficiency, and there is always a time window for running the dishwasher/washing machine. From November to February it’s a quiet period—not because there’s no further management, but simply because there is no sun 😳

What can be usefully controlled besides the battery and, if available, the electric vehicle, is the domestic hot water preparation via the photovoltaic manager. Our washing machine is connected to a domestic hot water mixing valve to benefit from the higher efficiency of the heat pump hot water system. That way, the washing machine only uses electricity for the pump and drum (which is really minimal). It’s not very sophisticated, but it still works 😉

So, this is exactly what the thread is about.

There is an energy management system in place. The money for the necessary technology has been spent, and the washing machine’s program is even being adjusted by taking over its hot water supply because, unlike the usual connection to cold water, it is connected to a mixing valve. The rest is still done manually, which of course is up to you.

So, what's the fuss about?

Isn’t connecting the washing machine to the hot water supply exactly the 3.38€ (about $3.38) saving for hot water heating that was briefly mentioned?