Hello everyone,
I have a question. We got in touch with an architect through an acquaintance, but we are not really satisfied with the process and the work. Therefore, we want to part ways with the architect since we realize we don't really get along.
There is no contract that we have signed. When I brought up the topic of costs during the first meeting, he said he would charge the minimum rate according to HOAI and would first create a draft. When I asked what would happen if we did not agree, he told us not to worry and that something like that wouldn’t happen.
Now it has come to that, and my question is how to proceed best and what the architect can charge for his services.
What has been done so far: In the first meeting, we said that we wanted a house with 160 m² (1,720 sq ft) and a maximum all-in cost of 260,000 EUR (approximately). I explicitly asked if this was feasible, and he said it was achievable.
After presenting the first draft, the costs were estimated at 320,000 EUR. I said that while it was a nice design, the costs didn’t fit and that we needed to reduce them. We considered the draft and gave the architect changes since he had forgotten a room. Of course, we also told him to reduce costs. Our changes were implemented, but at the next meeting, there was no updated cost estimate. The architect said we would still be around 320,000 EUR. He hadn’t included blinds and underfloor heating in the first cost calculation. Regarding the originally stated budget of 260,000 EUR from the first meeting, he then said this amount was without his architect fee, although I had explicitly said it included his fee.
We then asked for an alternative floor plan for the next meeting, since the previous plan was a split-level house due to our sloping plot. He presented an alternative draft (I think it was some standard layout from his drawer), but without a cost breakdown. He said it would not be any cheaper than the first draft.
So, we keep going in circles without any real progress in reducing costs.
We provided further changes to the first floor plan. The architect finally reduced the building volume somewhat, and now we are at a cost of 300,000 EUR. He proudly noted in his letter that we have now reached our budget, if we deduct our planned own contribution (self-performed work) from the construction costs. I have to say, however, that after the second draft we raised our budget to a maximum of 280,000 EUR.
Now the floor plan no longer appeals to us because of all the compromises (for example, access to the utility room through the guest bathroom), and we don’t really trust the architect anymore (caused by repeated reminders about the budget, the drawn-in masonry fireplace which has still not been considered, and so on).
The fact is, our budget has still not been met, and we will not reach it without significantly downsizing. That has very little to do with our original 160 m² and 260,000 EUR to 280,000 EUR budget.
Now my question is how best to end this misunderstanding and what the architect can charge us. He should not have worked for free, but I also don’t want him to come up with an excessive bill. Honestly, I don’t even know in which service phase we currently are. We have partly completed Phase 1 – basic evaluation, but what exactly is the difference between Phase 2 and 3? In my opinion, we are in Phase 2 – preliminary design plus cost estimation. So far, we have only received colorful prints with exterior views and occasional cost estimates, but is that already considered design development?
I would be grateful for your advice on how to proceed best.
I have a question. We got in touch with an architect through an acquaintance, but we are not really satisfied with the process and the work. Therefore, we want to part ways with the architect since we realize we don't really get along.
There is no contract that we have signed. When I brought up the topic of costs during the first meeting, he said he would charge the minimum rate according to HOAI and would first create a draft. When I asked what would happen if we did not agree, he told us not to worry and that something like that wouldn’t happen.
Now it has come to that, and my question is how to proceed best and what the architect can charge for his services.
What has been done so far: In the first meeting, we said that we wanted a house with 160 m² (1,720 sq ft) and a maximum all-in cost of 260,000 EUR (approximately). I explicitly asked if this was feasible, and he said it was achievable.
After presenting the first draft, the costs were estimated at 320,000 EUR. I said that while it was a nice design, the costs didn’t fit and that we needed to reduce them. We considered the draft and gave the architect changes since he had forgotten a room. Of course, we also told him to reduce costs. Our changes were implemented, but at the next meeting, there was no updated cost estimate. The architect said we would still be around 320,000 EUR. He hadn’t included blinds and underfloor heating in the first cost calculation. Regarding the originally stated budget of 260,000 EUR from the first meeting, he then said this amount was without his architect fee, although I had explicitly said it included his fee.
We then asked for an alternative floor plan for the next meeting, since the previous plan was a split-level house due to our sloping plot. He presented an alternative draft (I think it was some standard layout from his drawer), but without a cost breakdown. He said it would not be any cheaper than the first draft.
So, we keep going in circles without any real progress in reducing costs.
We provided further changes to the first floor plan. The architect finally reduced the building volume somewhat, and now we are at a cost of 300,000 EUR. He proudly noted in his letter that we have now reached our budget, if we deduct our planned own contribution (self-performed work) from the construction costs. I have to say, however, that after the second draft we raised our budget to a maximum of 280,000 EUR.
Now the floor plan no longer appeals to us because of all the compromises (for example, access to the utility room through the guest bathroom), and we don’t really trust the architect anymore (caused by repeated reminders about the budget, the drawn-in masonry fireplace which has still not been considered, and so on).
The fact is, our budget has still not been met, and we will not reach it without significantly downsizing. That has very little to do with our original 160 m² and 260,000 EUR to 280,000 EUR budget.
Now my question is how best to end this misunderstanding and what the architect can charge us. He should not have worked for free, but I also don’t want him to come up with an excessive bill. Honestly, I don’t even know in which service phase we currently are. We have partly completed Phase 1 – basic evaluation, but what exactly is the difference between Phase 2 and 3? In my opinion, we are in Phase 2 – preliminary design plus cost estimation. So far, we have only received colorful prints with exterior views and occasional cost estimates, but is that already considered design development?
I would be grateful for your advice on how to proceed best.
For me
Was DIY work agreed upon? For me, your architect has never fulfilled his assignment. You could ask him for a third revision. If he still doesn’t deliver what he promised, I wouldn’t pay anything, and probably no invoice will be issued.
Tommes78 schrieb:
Hello everyone,
I have a question. We got in touch with an architect through an acquaintance, but we are not really satisfied with the process and the work. Therefore, we want to part ways with the architect since we realize we don’t really get along.
There is no contract we signed. When I asked him about costs during the first meeting, he said he would bill according to the minimum rate of the HOAI, and he would first create a design draft. When I asked what would happen if we didn’t agree, he said we shouldn’t worry and that wouldn’t happen.
Now it has indeed happened, so my question is how to proceed best and what the architect can reasonably charge for his work?
What has been done so far: In the first meeting, we said we wanted a house with 160 m² (1722 ft²), and that the maximum total cost should be 260,000 EUR (approximately 260,000 USD) all in. I expressly asked if that was feasible, and he said we could achieve that.
After he presented the first design draft, the estimate was 320,000 EUR (approximately 320,000 USD). I said that while it was a nice design, the cost was too high and that we needed to reduce expenses. We considered the draft and gave the architect some changes, since he had also forgotten a room. Of course, we asked him to reduce costs as well. Our changes were implemented, but at the meeting no new cost estimate was available. The architect said the estimate would still be 320,000 EUR (approximately 320,000 USD). He had not included the blinds and underfloor heating in the first cost calculation. Regarding the initial budget of 260,000 EUR (approximately 260,000 USD) from the first meeting, he suddenly said that amount did not include his architectural fees, but I had explicitly said the sum includes his fees.
Anyway, we asked for an alternative floor plan for the next meeting, since the previous plan was a split-level house due to our sloped lot. He then presented an alternative draft (I think it was a standard existing floor plan he had on hand), but without a cost breakdown. He said it would not be cheaper than the first draft.
So, we are going in circles and nothing really happens to reduce the costs.
We gave additional changes to the first floor plan again. The architect finally reduced the volume somewhat, and now the estimate is 300,000 EUR (approximately 300,000 USD). Proudly, he stated in his letter that we have now met our budget if we deduct the planned DIY work from the total construction cost. I have to say that after the second draft we raised the budget to a maximum of 280,000 EUR (approximately 280,000 USD).
However, the floor plan no longer appeals to us due to all the cutbacks (e.g., access to the utility room through the guest bathroom), and somehow the trust relationship is no longer really there (due to repeated reminders about the budget, the planned masonry fireplace still not being included after all this time, etc., etc.).
The fact is, to date our budget has not been met and it will no longer be possible without further shrinking. That has little to do with our 160 m² (1722 ft²) and 260,000 EUR (approximately 260,000 USD) - 280,000 EUR (approximately 280,000 USD) budget.
Now my question is how best to end this misunderstanding and what the architect can charge us. He shouldn’t have done this work for free, but I also don’t want him to come with an excessive invoice. Honestly, I don’t even know which project phase we are in. We have partly completed Phase 1 - basic evaluation, but what is the difference between Phase 2 and 3? In my opinion, we are in Phase 2 – preliminary planning + cost estimation. So far, we have only received color prints with exterior views plus occasional cost estimates, but is that already design planning?
I appreciate your help on how to proceed best.
Was DIY work agreed upon? For me, your architect has never fulfilled his assignment. You could ask him for a third revision. If he still doesn’t deliver what he promised, I wouldn’t pay anything, and probably no invoice will be issued.
At the first meeting, there was no mention of any personal contribution. I now find it a bit cheeky that he is calculating the costs for the house and then writes that, minus your personal contribution, we are within your desired budget.
After the initial draft, I said that the budget was way too high and we couldn’t afford it. He then said that we could add some personal contribution and reduce the standard of finishes (whatever that means). In the meantime, the building volume has been reduced and some things were cut, but we are still at 300,000 euros.
Well, I will see how we can come to an agreement to resolve this. I don’t think we can get through this without some personal contribution, but I am also not willing to pay several thousand euros for it, especially since he still hasn’t met our budget.
After the initial draft, I said that the budget was way too high and we couldn’t afford it. He then said that we could add some personal contribution and reduce the standard of finishes (whatever that means). In the meantime, the building volume has been reduced and some things were cut, but we are still at 300,000 euros.
Well, I will see how we can come to an agreement to resolve this. I don’t think we can get through this without some personal contribution, but I am also not willing to pay several thousand euros for it, especially since he still hasn’t met our budget.
Hello Tommes,
I can really relate to your situation, as we went through the exact same experience.
The HOAI clearly defines what the architect must deliver for each service phase. They also have to prove this with a so-called "auditable invoice." This means, for example, that the services provided in Phase 1, the basic evaluation, must be documented in writing. Often, this is not done, and the delivered services do not meet the required standards.
We confronted our architect after receiving an interim invoice for Phases 1-2 by pointing out that the services had not been provided (e.g., inadequate basic evaluation, designs that were far too expensive, with a multiplier of about 1.5 to 2, and no cost estimate). In the end, he was offended that we criticized his work and didn’t want to continue. He initially wanted a few thousand euros, but since the previous work was worthless to us (as mentioned, the designs were excessively costly), we did not want to pay anything. After some skillful negotiation, we reached a termination agreement and came out of it paying nothing.
There are also good and conscientious architects, but sometimes you might end up with the wrong one.
I wish you the best of luck.
I can really relate to your situation, as we went through the exact same experience.
The HOAI clearly defines what the architect must deliver for each service phase. They also have to prove this with a so-called "auditable invoice." This means, for example, that the services provided in Phase 1, the basic evaluation, must be documented in writing. Often, this is not done, and the delivered services do not meet the required standards.
We confronted our architect after receiving an interim invoice for Phases 1-2 by pointing out that the services had not been provided (e.g., inadequate basic evaluation, designs that were far too expensive, with a multiplier of about 1.5 to 2, and no cost estimate). In the end, he was offended that we criticized his work and didn’t want to continue. He initially wanted a few thousand euros, but since the previous work was worthless to us (as mentioned, the designs were excessively costly), we did not want to pay anything. After some skillful negotiation, we reached a termination agreement and came out of it paying nothing.
There are also good and conscientious architects, but sometimes you might end up with the wrong one.
I wish you the best of luck.
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