ᐅ Electrical specification review with developer preparation
Created on: 2 Jul 2021 13:15
V
vorkalmatadorV
vorkalmatador2 Jul 2021 13:15Hello dear forum members,
to keep it brief: Next Monday we have the electrical planning meeting for the shell of our upcoming semi-detached house.
We have already considered the basics (location of light fixtures, switches, motors, power outlets, network sockets), but I would like to clarify a few points before I have to deal with the probably rather unmotivated electrician from the builder on Monday 🙂
Well, it turned out a bit longer than expected, sorry.
I hope you can still help me a bit so I can tell the electrician exactly what I want and not be brushed off with comments like “no, that’s not how it’s done.”
Best regards
to keep it brief: Next Monday we have the electrical planning meeting for the shell of our upcoming semi-detached house.
We have already considered the basics (location of light fixtures, switches, motors, power outlets, network sockets), but I would like to clarify a few points before I have to deal with the probably rather unmotivated electrician from the builder on Monday 🙂
- Preparation for Wallbox: We would like to have the necessary connections (11 kW, 3-phase) prepared so we can connect a wallbox charger in the future. The plan is to install the wallbox on the outer wall of the house (36cm (14 inches) aerated concrete). Will the raw cables just stick out of a hole, or how is this typically done? In case I later decide not to mount the wallbox directly on the wall but further back in the garden, could the wiring be “extended”?
- Network Access Point: Network sockets are planned in several rooms, partly single, partly double (please don’t criticize me for not having all double, I can still add more later. The number of sockets was negotiated in the contract). Some are in aerated concrete, some in drywall. In both the ground floor corridor and the upper floor corridor, I have planned network sockets to install Ubiquiti PoE access points. Since I won’t be able to embed the device in the concrete ceiling anymore, the plan is at least on the ground floor to mount it relatively high on the wall. Is there anything special to consider here, or will the connection be prepared like a “normal” network socket, and then the flat access point is just plugged in? Between the upper floor and the attic is a wooden ceiling (not built yet). Could I plan to mount it there on the ceiling, or will the electrician laugh at me and say that’s not possible?
- Network Wiring: If I understand correctly, the electrician will run the in-wall cabling inside to the sockets. These cables end somewhere, hopefully in the utility room, where they must be connected to a patch panel. Do I have to do this myself, or is this included when the builder contract states “installation of 10 network sockets”? Then from the patch panel, a patch cable goes per run into the switch, which is connected via patch cable to LAN1 of the router.
- "Smart" Roller Shutter Motors: All our roller shutters will be motorized; unfortunately, the contract does not specify which motor. We would like to control the shutters via app so we can close or open everything while sitting on the couch downstairs. What makes the most sense here? Upgrading to a “smart” motor for probably quite some extra cost? Or just smartifying the switches? I’ve also read you can simply ask the electrician to make the wall box recess a bit deeper to install a 2.5 or similar Shelly smart relay between the switch and motor if needed. Do electricians usually agree to this, or are there warranty issues? Any other suggestions?
- Power Supply for the Garden: We would like to have electricity in the garden area, for example where the shed or carport will be later. We are not 100% certain yet where exactly the shed and carport will be, so we cannot give the electrician precise information. How can this be prepared? Conduits are not flexible either.
- Intercom System: Our semi-detached house is on a great lot, about 55m (180 feet) from the street. Since the house next door is currently for sale and we don’t know what the buyers will do, there is currently no gate at the front. Surely one will be installed later; should we already have a conduit installed there? A modern video intercom at the gate probably won’t work as there will be no internet connection. Or could I have a network cable run in a conduit to the front and then connect a camera with Power over Ethernet there?
Well, it turned out a bit longer than expected, sorry.
I hope you can still help me a bit so I can tell the electrician exactly what I want and not be brushed off with comments like “no, that’s not how it’s done.”
Best regards
H
HilfeHilfe2 Jul 2021 13:42Regarding the wallbox, etc. Just have empty conduit pipes installed.
O
Osnabruecker2 Jul 2021 13:53Garden and Gate System:
Have conduits installed. It’s better to choose a slightly larger size so you can add cables or pipes later if needed.
The conduits don’t need to be cut to exact lengths; their purpose is to avoid digging up areas like driveways, paving, or flower beds when you need to run something between points A and C instead of having to go through B.
(Don’t skimp on the size here. I once saved 5 € by skipping a junction in the drainage system installation, and later had to spend several hours digging and fiddling to connect it afterwards…)
Have conduits installed. It’s better to choose a slightly larger size so you can add cables or pipes later if needed.
The conduits don’t need to be cut to exact lengths; their purpose is to avoid digging up areas like driveways, paving, or flower beds when you need to run something between points A and C instead of having to go through B.
(Don’t skimp on the size here. I once saved 5 € by skipping a junction in the drainage system installation, and later had to spend several hours digging and fiddling to connect it afterwards…)
V
vorkalmatador2 Jul 2021 21:00But aren’t the conduit pipes already fixed to a specific location? So, are they buried in the ground and then placed in a certain corner of the garden, or how should I picture that? Or does conduit pipe simply mean a kind of protective layer around the cable, which is then buried once you know where it needs to go?
I can’t imagine the builder would bury conduit pipes 20m (65 feet) into the ground, right?
I can’t imagine the builder would bury conduit pipes 20m (65 feet) into the ground, right?
O
Osnabruecker2 Jul 2021 23:25Empty conduit.
Empty conduit.
This means only a "tube" is installed, through which a cable can be pulled later if needed.
You can also pull the cable from A to C inside the empty conduit, and then lay the cable loosely in the ground up to D.
For example, during the paving work, we had a cable installed inside the curb’s back support. (That was done without an empty conduit, directly with the cable.)
We didn’t need to dig separately for this. And if we ever need a cable at the end of the garden, the entire lawn doesn’t have to be dug up—just the existing cable can be connected.
Empty conduit.
This means only a "tube" is installed, through which a cable can be pulled later if needed.
You can also pull the cable from A to C inside the empty conduit, and then lay the cable loosely in the ground up to D.
For example, during the paving work, we had a cable installed inside the curb’s back support. (That was done without an empty conduit, directly with the cable.)
We didn’t need to dig separately for this. And if we ever need a cable at the end of the garden, the entire lawn doesn’t have to be dug up—just the existing cable can be connected.
Regarding the network. Having multiple network outlets distributed throughout the house is definitely a good approach. A double outlet has the advantage that it doesn’t take up any more space and can often help avoid using a switch, depending on the situation. I prefer having the network cables installed conduit-based, but for cost reasons this is often not done. You should discuss this with your electrician, and ask them to ensure that the cables can be replaced later if necessary.
Where you distribute your network from must be firmly agreed upon with your builder or electrician. Don’t just rely on them to find a good spot for you. Now comes a basic question: network cabinet 10" or 19", multimedia distributor, or just mounting everything on the wall? For me, this choice determines the type of patch panel. I expect that if nothing is agreed upon, your electrician will simply mount a standard off-the-shelf unit on the wall. Personally, I would have the network cables terminate at the patch panel using Keystone modules. That way, cables can be easily integrated later into a network cabinet. Of course, the cables need to be long enough, which is another point to agree on. Whether your electrician uses Keystone modules should also be discussed. Many still terminate cables using LSA connectors, which is not bad but has some disadvantages in terms of handling. I would also have both ends of the cables terminated by the electrician, and request a test report for each connection. You connect the patch panel to a switch using patch cables, and then the switch connects to the router.
Regarding the access points (APs). If you want them mounted on the wall and plan to use UniFi, I would recommend the In-Wall APs, as they are specifically designed for wall mounting. The UniFi "domes" are intended for ceiling mounting. Check the installation manual of the APs to get an idea of how to prepare the setup. In my opinion, this means installing a deep flush-mounted or electronics box. On the cabling, install a Keystone module without a mounting frame. Then use a short patch cable to connect this to the access point. Mount the access point over the box to conceal it. What about Wi-Fi coverage in the garden? At least prepare for an outdoor access point. If you have up to three Power over Ethernet (PoE) devices in your home, you can power them using PoE injectors. Otherwise, purchase a PoE switch, which tends to be more expensive than a standard switch.
Regarding the wallbox (electric vehicle charger). You should also run a LAN cable to the wallbox. Many units have a LAN port for purposes like reading charging statistics. Alternatively, there are models with Wi-Fi, but this is where an outdoor access point becomes important again.
Very important: don’t just assume the electrician will handle everything properly. Discuss each point carefully and, ideally, document everything in writing.
Where you distribute your network from must be firmly agreed upon with your builder or electrician. Don’t just rely on them to find a good spot for you. Now comes a basic question: network cabinet 10" or 19", multimedia distributor, or just mounting everything on the wall? For me, this choice determines the type of patch panel. I expect that if nothing is agreed upon, your electrician will simply mount a standard off-the-shelf unit on the wall. Personally, I would have the network cables terminate at the patch panel using Keystone modules. That way, cables can be easily integrated later into a network cabinet. Of course, the cables need to be long enough, which is another point to agree on. Whether your electrician uses Keystone modules should also be discussed. Many still terminate cables using LSA connectors, which is not bad but has some disadvantages in terms of handling. I would also have both ends of the cables terminated by the electrician, and request a test report for each connection. You connect the patch panel to a switch using patch cables, and then the switch connects to the router.
Regarding the access points (APs). If you want them mounted on the wall and plan to use UniFi, I would recommend the In-Wall APs, as they are specifically designed for wall mounting. The UniFi "domes" are intended for ceiling mounting. Check the installation manual of the APs to get an idea of how to prepare the setup. In my opinion, this means installing a deep flush-mounted or electronics box. On the cabling, install a Keystone module without a mounting frame. Then use a short patch cable to connect this to the access point. Mount the access point over the box to conceal it. What about Wi-Fi coverage in the garden? At least prepare for an outdoor access point. If you have up to three Power over Ethernet (PoE) devices in your home, you can power them using PoE injectors. Otherwise, purchase a PoE switch, which tends to be more expensive than a standard switch.
Regarding the wallbox (electric vehicle charger). You should also run a LAN cable to the wallbox. Many units have a LAN port for purposes like reading charging statistics. Alternatively, there are models with Wi-Fi, but this is where an outdoor access point becomes important again.
Very important: don’t just assume the electrician will handle everything properly. Discuss each point carefully and, ideally, document everything in writing.
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