Hi, we had our electrical consultation on Friday to discuss where everything should be installed.
Attached is a plan showing how we planned it with the electrician. Almost all our wishes were included; there were hardly any suggestions for improvement.
In the pictures, the power outlets are marked in orange.
For internet/telephone, we only have 2 lines. He wanted to charge 108€ per outlet for more lines, so we are now doing it ourselves, meaning there will be an internet connection in every room.
Living room: 4-2-4 power outlets plus TV, and 2 plus another 2 outlets.
Hallway: 1 outlet at the front and at the back, plus a telephone connection.
Utility room: besides the appliances themselves, for washing machine and dryer there are 2 individual outlets.
Guest WC: 1 outlet.
Home office: 3 power outlets plus telephone and TV, and 2 times 1 outlet.
Upstairs:
Children’s rooms: 3 outlets plus TV and 2 times 2 outlets.
Dressing room: 2 individual outlets in the middle at the top (for Ikea Pax light). Also, the light switch for the bedroom is in the dressing room... is that a good setup? (Red dot-arrow)
Bedroom: 3 outlets plus TV, and next to the bed, 3 outlets on each side (would it be better to have these lower or slightly higher so they are above the bedside table? Since baby monitors, phones, etc. are plugged in daily.)
Storage room: 2 individual outlets.
Bathroom: 2 outlets on the left side of the vanity wall. Additionally, a ceiling light in front of the shower. Are there any suggestions for improvement here? Should one outlet be left there with a spotlight that shines into the shower, or use that one outlet to install LED spots in the ceiling?
Hallway at the back: 1 outlet.
So, now the pictures follow, which hopefully are clear.
I would appreciate your feedback and suggestions for improvements.
Attached is a plan showing how we planned it with the electrician. Almost all our wishes were included; there were hardly any suggestions for improvement.
In the pictures, the power outlets are marked in orange.
For internet/telephone, we only have 2 lines. He wanted to charge 108€ per outlet for more lines, so we are now doing it ourselves, meaning there will be an internet connection in every room.
Living room: 4-2-4 power outlets plus TV, and 2 plus another 2 outlets.
Hallway: 1 outlet at the front and at the back, plus a telephone connection.
Utility room: besides the appliances themselves, for washing machine and dryer there are 2 individual outlets.
Guest WC: 1 outlet.
Home office: 3 power outlets plus telephone and TV, and 2 times 1 outlet.
Upstairs:
Children’s rooms: 3 outlets plus TV and 2 times 2 outlets.
Dressing room: 2 individual outlets in the middle at the top (for Ikea Pax light). Also, the light switch for the bedroom is in the dressing room... is that a good setup? (Red dot-arrow)
Bedroom: 3 outlets plus TV, and next to the bed, 3 outlets on each side (would it be better to have these lower or slightly higher so they are above the bedside table? Since baby monitors, phones, etc. are plugged in daily.)
Storage room: 2 individual outlets.
Bathroom: 2 outlets on the left side of the vanity wall. Additionally, a ceiling light in front of the shower. Are there any suggestions for improvement here? Should one outlet be left there with a spotlight that shines into the shower, or use that one outlet to install LED spots in the ceiling?
Hallway at the back: 1 outlet.
So, now the pictures follow, which hopefully are clear.
I would appreciate your feedback and suggestions for improvements.
Here are a few more points.
Sorry.
My email to the electrician and the site manager:
Hello everyone,
I don’t even know where to start?!
Today we were on site with an experienced electrician, the head of a well-known company, but even a layperson can see that a lot of poor workmanship has been done here.
See the pictures.
Point 1:
Let’s start with the cables for the roller shutter motors. These motors will fail sooner or later.
It would be good if the cables could be easily replaced when that happens.
Although the cable was pulled through a conduit, the conduit has a bend that is far too tight!
This contradicts the manufacturer’s specifications.
Furthermore, a conduit must lead all the way into the junction box, not stop just before it, leaving only the cable entering the box.
This causes the cable to be embedded in plaster, making the conduit pointless. In that case, the cable could have been laid directly in the wall without any conduit.
We will never be able to pull the cable through here.
Point 2:
TV/satellite cables, which we pay extra to have individually pulled through conduits (star wiring), because XXX only provides a single-cable solution not recommended for satellite.
Same issue here: bends are far too tight (90° corners), and the cables and conduits are hammered and crushed into the floor with hooked nails (is that even allowed?).
This definitely damages the cable, and some may already be defective.
The impedance is increased, which may result in poor or lost signals over time.
Again, the conduit does not reach into the outlet box.
Please replace all cables with NEW ones, properly installed without kinks or crushing.
Attached is also a picture of how it should look!
Point 3:
Power cables: the insulation is supposed to extend into the junction box.
Here, too, the cables were crushed with hooked nails!
Point 4:
I marked the bed position with chalk in the bedroom, but part of it is now hidden behind the drywall. The desired two-way switch in the bedroom is currently located completely behind the headboard.
The switch is installed too low and would be completely hidden behind the bed. We have a box spring bed. We actually expected the switches to be installed to the left and right next to the power outlets.
Please fix this!
Point 5: (@ B.)
I still have not received a response regarding the cost savings from omitting the telephone sockets.
Point 6: (@ P.)
I also have no answer about which holes I may run cables through and how much space is available.
Point 7:
I find it a bit confusing that we are not allowed to install any outlets or switches in the ring beam, yet a groove may be chiseled through it completely.
--
Reply from the electrician:
Dear Mr. xxx,
Please allow us to finish our electrical installation first. When we plaster over everything, including around the boxes, we will naturally ensure that the cables are inside the boxes.
Fixing the cables to the floor with hooked nails is common practice and permitted for NYY-J cables, as well as for the conduit. The TV cable is definitely not crushed as it lies inside an M20 protective conduit. All cables will be checked again by us in the end.
The roller shutter cable is inside a protective conduit and is not meant for cable replacement in case of failure. If the motor fails, the cable is disconnected at the motor.
The wall groove is milled, no deeper than 1.5 cm (0.6 inches), and does not affect the structural stability.
I kindly ask you to direct all future questions to the site manager, Mr. P. He will then get in touch with me.
Thank you in advance.
My reply again:
Even if the cables are “supposed” not to be crushed, I will never get them out this way because they are hammered in so tightly, and the bends, rather corners, are way too small.
His reply again:
Hello Mr. H.,
The conduit is only a protective sleeve for the cable in the screed and plaster and is not intended as a pull conduit. If that is required, special pulling boxes must be installed in the screed or wall, because it is not possible to pull new cables along the length of the cable run. (DIN 18015-3 installation zones)
What do you think? Am I right?
Sorry.
My email to the electrician and the site manager:
Hello everyone,
I don’t even know where to start?!
Today we were on site with an experienced electrician, the head of a well-known company, but even a layperson can see that a lot of poor workmanship has been done here.
See the pictures.
Point 1:
Let’s start with the cables for the roller shutter motors. These motors will fail sooner or later.
It would be good if the cables could be easily replaced when that happens.
Although the cable was pulled through a conduit, the conduit has a bend that is far too tight!
This contradicts the manufacturer’s specifications.
Furthermore, a conduit must lead all the way into the junction box, not stop just before it, leaving only the cable entering the box.
This causes the cable to be embedded in plaster, making the conduit pointless. In that case, the cable could have been laid directly in the wall without any conduit.
We will never be able to pull the cable through here.
Point 2:
TV/satellite cables, which we pay extra to have individually pulled through conduits (star wiring), because XXX only provides a single-cable solution not recommended for satellite.
Same issue here: bends are far too tight (90° corners), and the cables and conduits are hammered and crushed into the floor with hooked nails (is that even allowed?).
This definitely damages the cable, and some may already be defective.
The impedance is increased, which may result in poor or lost signals over time.
Again, the conduit does not reach into the outlet box.
Please replace all cables with NEW ones, properly installed without kinks or crushing.
Attached is also a picture of how it should look!
Point 3:
Power cables: the insulation is supposed to extend into the junction box.
Here, too, the cables were crushed with hooked nails!
Point 4:
I marked the bed position with chalk in the bedroom, but part of it is now hidden behind the drywall. The desired two-way switch in the bedroom is currently located completely behind the headboard.
The switch is installed too low and would be completely hidden behind the bed. We have a box spring bed. We actually expected the switches to be installed to the left and right next to the power outlets.
Please fix this!
Point 5: (@ B.)
I still have not received a response regarding the cost savings from omitting the telephone sockets.
Point 6: (@ P.)
I also have no answer about which holes I may run cables through and how much space is available.
Point 7:
I find it a bit confusing that we are not allowed to install any outlets or switches in the ring beam, yet a groove may be chiseled through it completely.
--
Reply from the electrician:
Dear Mr. xxx,
Please allow us to finish our electrical installation first. When we plaster over everything, including around the boxes, we will naturally ensure that the cables are inside the boxes.
Fixing the cables to the floor with hooked nails is common practice and permitted for NYY-J cables, as well as for the conduit. The TV cable is definitely not crushed as it lies inside an M20 protective conduit. All cables will be checked again by us in the end.
The roller shutter cable is inside a protective conduit and is not meant for cable replacement in case of failure. If the motor fails, the cable is disconnected at the motor.
The wall groove is milled, no deeper than 1.5 cm (0.6 inches), and does not affect the structural stability.
I kindly ask you to direct all future questions to the site manager, Mr. P. He will then get in touch with me.
Thank you in advance.
My reply again:
Even if the cables are “supposed” not to be crushed, I will never get them out this way because they are hammered in so tightly, and the bends, rather corners, are way too small.
His reply again:
Hello Mr. H.,
The conduit is only a protective sleeve for the cable in the screed and plaster and is not intended as a pull conduit. If that is required, special pulling boxes must be installed in the screed or wall, because it is not possible to pull new cables along the length of the cable run. (DIN 18015-3 installation zones)
What do you think? Am I right?
C
Caspar202014 Sep 2017 11:05A toast to German craftsmanship. Whether this meets DIN standards or complies with the aRdT, I’m not sure, but I wouldn’t want such an electrical installation in my home.
In the end, it seems your electrician is not willing to invest more work and time.
In the end, it seems your electrician is not willing to invest more work and time.
Wow, I don’t even know what to say...
Here, the rough-in installation is complete, and I never saw anything like that. Like you, I would probably be very dissatisfied with it.
I’m not sure if this is specified in any standard, but to my knowledge, data cabling (LAN/SAT) is usually installed in conduits to allow for easy replacement.
If I were you, I would have the site manager come to the house and ask for their opinion.
Here, the rough-in installation is complete, and I never saw anything like that. Like you, I would probably be very dissatisfied with it.
I’m not sure if this is specified in any standard, but to my knowledge, data cabling (LAN/SAT) is usually installed in conduits to allow for easy replacement.
If I were you, I would have the site manager come to the house and ask for their opinion.
B
Bau-Schmidt14 Sep 2017 15:14Oh... sloppy work by the electrician.
Bau-Schmidt schrieb:
Wow... what a botched job by the electrician.! No idea whether this complies with the standards, but I would definitely have it checked by an expert. Some aspects look really concerning.
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