Hello everyone.
Here’s the situation: The house is built (in Cuxhaven), the carport has been chosen and the contract signed. The price is almost 13,000€ (about $14,000).
The carport is a kit and will have space for two cars plus a workshop, covering a total of 50sqm (about 540 sq ft). The manufacturer is Biber Carport from Munich, and the contract includes a clause allowing cancellation if the building permit / planning permission is denied. I have already paid a deposit.
So far, so good.
While researching what is required for the building permit / planning permission application, the building authority said the application must be signed by a “design author” – either an architect or a master craftsman, whoever designed the structure. And, of course, they need a drawing of the carport.
That is clear too.
So I approached the company, which then said they don’t have such a person in-house but use an external expert. They said they would have to check if this person can sign the application because sometimes such signatures imply additional liabilities that cannot be fulfilled remotely, for example, if the design author were assumed to have construction supervision responsibilities. They want more than 500€ (about $540) extra for the drawing.
I can understand the extra cost for the drawing since my carport is custom-made. As for the liabilities related to the building permit / planning permission, I could not find anything in the form about that. It only has a section for the design author’s name, company, etc., and that’s it.
The review process took a long time, so after more than four weeks, I asked whether they were able to sign the application. Otherwise, I would like to exercise my right to cancel the contract. I did not really accept the Corona situation as an excuse since the external review is done by forwarding an email, and I had sent that email a week before the lockdown started in Bavaria.
Now, more than five weeks after submitting the form, they responded that they need more time, citing Corona and other reasons. Also, they said there was never talk of a building permit / planning permission service and that I can only exercise the cancellation clause if I can provide a rejected application.
Funny – how can I get a rejection if they won’t give me the signature I need?!
Long story short: Can anyone explain what the standard responsibilities of a manufacturer are in such a case? To me, that naturally should be part of the product. Meanwhile, they act as if this was an optional convenience service, like a registration service when buying a car. Maybe they haven’t fully understood the situation yet, but that can be clarified. Still: What is normally included in such a product and what counts as an extra service?
Even though I understand the additional charge for the drawing, I think buyers should be made aware of this in advance, especially since the carport is large enough that a building permit / planning permission is needed in every federal state, and therefore a drawing is necessary.
Looking forward to your answers.
Enrico
Here’s the situation: The house is built (in Cuxhaven), the carport has been chosen and the contract signed. The price is almost 13,000€ (about $14,000).
The carport is a kit and will have space for two cars plus a workshop, covering a total of 50sqm (about 540 sq ft). The manufacturer is Biber Carport from Munich, and the contract includes a clause allowing cancellation if the building permit / planning permission is denied. I have already paid a deposit.
So far, so good.
While researching what is required for the building permit / planning permission application, the building authority said the application must be signed by a “design author” – either an architect or a master craftsman, whoever designed the structure. And, of course, they need a drawing of the carport.
That is clear too.
So I approached the company, which then said they don’t have such a person in-house but use an external expert. They said they would have to check if this person can sign the application because sometimes such signatures imply additional liabilities that cannot be fulfilled remotely, for example, if the design author were assumed to have construction supervision responsibilities. They want more than 500€ (about $540) extra for the drawing.
I can understand the extra cost for the drawing since my carport is custom-made. As for the liabilities related to the building permit / planning permission, I could not find anything in the form about that. It only has a section for the design author’s name, company, etc., and that’s it.
The review process took a long time, so after more than four weeks, I asked whether they were able to sign the application. Otherwise, I would like to exercise my right to cancel the contract. I did not really accept the Corona situation as an excuse since the external review is done by forwarding an email, and I had sent that email a week before the lockdown started in Bavaria.
Now, more than five weeks after submitting the form, they responded that they need more time, citing Corona and other reasons. Also, they said there was never talk of a building permit / planning permission service and that I can only exercise the cancellation clause if I can provide a rejected application.
Funny – how can I get a rejection if they won’t give me the signature I need?!
Long story short: Can anyone explain what the standard responsibilities of a manufacturer are in such a case? To me, that naturally should be part of the product. Meanwhile, they act as if this was an optional convenience service, like a registration service when buying a car. Maybe they haven’t fully understood the situation yet, but that can be clarified. Still: What is normally included in such a product and what counts as an extra service?
Even though I understand the additional charge for the drawing, I think buyers should be made aware of this in advance, especially since the carport is large enough that a building permit / planning permission is needed in every federal state, and therefore a drawing is necessary.
Looking forward to your answers.
Enrico
B
B.Baumeister19 Apr 2020 11:53HilfeHilfe schrieb:
And what you still forget! If the building application is incomplete, there are problems or questions. Who resolves it? You or the carport manufacturer?! Well, who submits the application? Who is the builder and on whose property is this happening?
The answer to all these questions is: me.
All the building authority wants is simply to know who designed the structure.
H
HilfeHilfe19 Apr 2020 12:01B.Baumeister schrieb:
So, who’s submitting the application? Who is the client, and on whose land is this going to take place?
To all these questions, the answer is: me.
All the building authority really wants is to know who designed the structure. You don’t understand the purpose of a building permit application. And if the official in charge asks for a DIN A4 sheet with additional drawings and signatures, will you provide that as well? Or will the architect have to do it? Of course, free of charge. Our building authority recently mentioned that 50% of applications are returned as incomplete or incorrect. Anyway, you have no legal basis here. You purchased a carport, not a carport with a building permit application.
B.Baumeister schrieb:
Hello everyone.
Here is the situation: The house is built (in Cuxhaven), the carport has been chosen and the contract signed. The price is nearly 13,000€ (about $14,000).
The carport is a kit and will have space for two cars plus a workshop, covering a total of 50sqm (540 sqft). The manufacturer is Biber Carport from Munich, and the contract includes a clause allowing cancellation if the building permit/planning permission is denied. I have already paid a deposit.
So far, so good.
When I researched the requirements for the building permit/planning permission, the building authority said the application must be signed by a “design author,” which is either an architect or a master craftsman—whoever designed the construction. Of course, they also require a drawing of the carport.
That part is clear as well.
So I approached the company, which told me they do not have such a person in-house but use an external consultant. They would have to ask if that person can sign the application, as sometimes additional obligations are linked to the signature that they, as a company, cannot fulfill remotely.
For example, if the design author automatically holds a construction supervision duty. They want to charge over 500€ (about $540) extra for the drawing.
I can understand the extra cost for the drawing because my carport is custom-made. Regarding the obligations linked to the building permit/planning permission, I find nothing related in the application form. It only asks for the design author’s name, company, etc., and that’s it.
The review took a long time, so after more than four weeks I asked if they were ready to sign the application. Otherwise, I would like to exercise my cancellation right. I did not really accept COVID-19 as an excuse since the external review is done by forwarding an email, and I sent it a week before Bavaria’s lockdown started.
After more than five weeks, they replied that they needed more time due to COVID-19 and other reasons. They also said there was never any agreement on a building permit service, and I can only exercise the cancellation right if I have a rejected building permit/planning permission.
Funny—how am I supposed to get a rejection if they won’t provide the signature I need?!
Long story short: Can anyone clarify what the manufacturer’s standard obligations are in such cases? To me, this should clearly be part of the product. They are acting almost as if this was an optional service like a registration service when buying a car. They probably do not fully understand the issue yet, but I can clarify that. Still: What should normally be included in a product like this, and what counts as an additional service?
While I understand the extra charge for the drawing, I think buyers should be informed about this in advance—especially since the carport’s size means you need to apply for a building permit/planning permission in every federal state, and therefore a drawing is always necessary.
Looking forward to your answers.
Enrico Are you even reading what is written?
You are missing an approved building permit/planning permission for the carport. This application must be signed by an authorized person. As the property owner, you are responsible for obtaining this signature.
Your purchase contract for the carport does not include this required signature. So you have to arrange it yourself.
Submit the application, hope it gets approved, then build. End of story.
I didn’t fully understand the current situation.
- The manufacturer provided a licensed professional (an architect) who is supposed to prepare the building permit application, right?
- How far along is this person actually? What specific issue are they stuck on?
- Have you tried calling the architect? If not, get their phone number.
- The manufacturer wants 500€ for a drawing. But a drawing is not a building permit application. So who is responsible for creating the drawing: the manufacturer or the architect? How is this arranged in the contract?
If no one has really started yet, you could consider replacing the manufacturer’s architect and hire a local architect yourself. I believe this would still be faster than having an architect from outside the area submit the building permit application. That person would likely have to make multiple revisions because they are not familiar with the often "arbitrary" requirements of the local authorities.
- The manufacturer provided a licensed professional (an architect) who is supposed to prepare the building permit application, right?
- How far along is this person actually? What specific issue are they stuck on?
- Have you tried calling the architect? If not, get their phone number.
- The manufacturer wants 500€ for a drawing. But a drawing is not a building permit application. So who is responsible for creating the drawing: the manufacturer or the architect? How is this arranged in the contract?
If no one has really started yet, you could consider replacing the manufacturer’s architect and hire a local architect yourself. I believe this would still be faster than having an architect from outside the area submit the building permit application. That person would likely have to make multiple revisions because they are not familiar with the often "arbitrary" requirements of the local authorities.
I
immermehr4 May 2020 07:44Hello,
I had a similar situation. The house is from Heinz von Heiden, the finished garage (used as a roof terrace) from another company (Heinz von Heiden no longer cooperates with, for example, Zapf).
--> Got the drawings, took them to the selection appointment, paid about €1600 (about $1700) to Heinz von Heiden to include the garage in the building permit / planning permission application and submit it.
Nothing is free.
I had a similar situation. The house is from Heinz von Heiden, the finished garage (used as a roof terrace) from another company (Heinz von Heiden no longer cooperates with, for example, Zapf).
--> Got the drawings, took them to the selection appointment, paid about €1600 (about $1700) to Heinz von Heiden to include the garage in the building permit / planning permission application and submit it.
Nothing is free.
Hello,
I had exactly the same "problem."
I also had to manage it through an external architect. In the end, I worked with an architect and paid about 500 € (approximately 540 USD) for it.
The first building permit / planning permission application was rejected because the carport was too close to the driveway. The architect then handled the second drawings and so on at no extra cost.
I had exactly the same "problem."
I also had to manage it through an external architect. In the end, I worked with an architect and paid about 500 € (approximately 540 USD) for it.
The first building permit / planning permission application was rejected because the carport was too close to the driveway. The architect then handled the second drawings and so on at no extra cost.
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