Hello everyone,
I want to renovate our driveway. It was originally constructed about 10 years ago by a company. They excavated the area, then laid down recycled concrete (compacted in layers), followed by a layer of sand about 5–6cm (2–2.5 inches) thick. On top of that was a rectangular paver (20 x 10 x 8cm (8 x 4 x 3 inches)), which I have already removed. Over the approximately 10 years, there were no settlements or ruts. The paving was bordered on the front, left, and right by curbs, with the garage slab at the back.
Cars and occasionally delivery vans drive on this surface.
Now, I want to install new pavers (also 8cm (3 inches) thick). I’m unsure whether I should simply leave the 5–6cm (2–2.5 inches) sand layer in place (I estimate the sand grains to be 0–5mm (0–0.2 inches) — see attached photo) or replace the sand with grit.
The simple approach would be…
The more thorough approach:
I want to renovate our driveway. It was originally constructed about 10 years ago by a company. They excavated the area, then laid down recycled concrete (compacted in layers), followed by a layer of sand about 5–6cm (2–2.5 inches) thick. On top of that was a rectangular paver (20 x 10 x 8cm (8 x 4 x 3 inches)), which I have already removed. Over the approximately 10 years, there were no settlements or ruts. The paving was bordered on the front, left, and right by curbs, with the garage slab at the back.
Cars and occasionally delivery vans drive on this surface.
Now, I want to install new pavers (also 8cm (3 inches) thick). I’m unsure whether I should simply leave the 5–6cm (2–2.5 inches) sand layer in place (I estimate the sand grains to be 0–5mm (0–0.2 inches) — see attached photo) or replace the sand with grit.
The simple approach would be…
- remove the dirty sand layer,
- rake the sand,
- add any missing sand,
- and then level the sand smoothly.
The more thorough approach:
- remove all sand completely,
- lay grit 2–8mm (0.08–0.3 inches),
- and then level the grit smoothly.
- I would reinstall the pavers on sand (0–5mm (0–0.2 inches)) because there were no problems over 10 years.
- There were no issues with ants…
- Could this be because the rectangular pavers were installed with very narrow joints? The joint was about 2mm (0.08 inches), with only the transport nibs touching each other.
- Or was it because it’s on the north side?[/*li]
- I would want to lay the new pavers with a 3mm (0.12 inches) joint.
- Which approach would you recommend?
Hi,
To be honest, I wouldn’t unnecessarily dismantle the existing structure. If the surface with the recycled base layer plus sand bedding has held up for 10 years without rutting or sinking, it was obviously done properly back then, which unfortunately doesn’t happen very often. That’s exactly why I think a complete replacement with gravel would be a bit of overkill and needless action from what you often see on the internet. People often act as if a pavement on sand will immediately vanish into the soil.
Removing the dirty top layer, lightly raking it, and leveling it again sounds like a more reasonable approach here. The important thing is that you don’t have any soft spots and that the bedding remains even afterward. Many underestimate how visually noticeable a 1cm (0.4 inch) difference can be later on, especially with 3mm (0.1 inch) joints. I would actually be more interested in whether your new stone has a chamfered edge or more of a sharp edge? That makes a bigger difference with narrow joints than most people think.
By the way, with 3mm (0.1 inch) joints, you are already in a range where precision is crucial; otherwise, your alignment will drift quickly during installation. The older rectangular pavers that were basically installed edge-to-edge were more forgiving. And yes, the absence of ants was probably due to the narrow joints combined with the north-facing location. Dry south-facing areas with gravel joints can look like small ecosystems after two summers, to put it mildly.
Gravel does have advantages in terms of water permeability and shape stability, but for existing functional surfaces, people often forget that a new gravel layer on an old base can sometimes cause more disturbance than intended—especially if the base has settled for years. Also, when leveling gravel, it’s easier to create small waves if you’re not careful, whereas sand is a bit more forgiving. The sand, of course, must not be too fine or clayey; otherwise, it can become soft after prolonged rain.
Another common mistake is compacting without enough joint material in place. Then the edges rub against each other during the first compaction, and after three months, people are surprised by chipped corners. It sounds trivial, but you see it all the time.
So, I would recommend sticking to the simple approach and just renewing the top layer properly. I would only go for a complete removal if you already had soft spots, puddling, or significant height differences now.
To be honest, I wouldn’t unnecessarily dismantle the existing structure. If the surface with the recycled base layer plus sand bedding has held up for 10 years without rutting or sinking, it was obviously done properly back then, which unfortunately doesn’t happen very often. That’s exactly why I think a complete replacement with gravel would be a bit of overkill and needless action from what you often see on the internet. People often act as if a pavement on sand will immediately vanish into the soil.
Removing the dirty top layer, lightly raking it, and leveling it again sounds like a more reasonable approach here. The important thing is that you don’t have any soft spots and that the bedding remains even afterward. Many underestimate how visually noticeable a 1cm (0.4 inch) difference can be later on, especially with 3mm (0.1 inch) joints. I would actually be more interested in whether your new stone has a chamfered edge or more of a sharp edge? That makes a bigger difference with narrow joints than most people think.
By the way, with 3mm (0.1 inch) joints, you are already in a range where precision is crucial; otherwise, your alignment will drift quickly during installation. The older rectangular pavers that were basically installed edge-to-edge were more forgiving. And yes, the absence of ants was probably due to the narrow joints combined with the north-facing location. Dry south-facing areas with gravel joints can look like small ecosystems after two summers, to put it mildly.
Gravel does have advantages in terms of water permeability and shape stability, but for existing functional surfaces, people often forget that a new gravel layer on an old base can sometimes cause more disturbance than intended—especially if the base has settled for years. Also, when leveling gravel, it’s easier to create small waves if you’re not careful, whereas sand is a bit more forgiving. The sand, of course, must not be too fine or clayey; otherwise, it can become soft after prolonged rain.
Another common mistake is compacting without enough joint material in place. Then the edges rub against each other during the first compaction, and after three months, people are surprised by chipped corners. It sounds trivial, but you see it all the time.
So, I would recommend sticking to the simple approach and just renewing the top layer properly. I would only go for a complete removal if you already had soft spots, puddling, or significant height differences now.
M
MachsSelbst13 May 2026 21:29Who shakes without filling the joints?
Thank you very much for the detailed reply. That helps me a lot already.
That's exactly how it reads. Hence my question(s) :-).
My parents had their terrace installed by a company, and they were strongly advised to bed it with gravel so they wouldn't have problems with ants. They had that done. After a short time, ants still appeared. Apparently, they also build their nests in gravel. The argument for using gravel to prevent ants doesn’t seem to hold up.
It might be worth mentioning that I want to lay a random pattern. There are four different stone sizes—basically like in this video....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk6DNc2PMEo. After watching it yesterday, I understand what you mean by working precisely... even with a random pattern, the joint repeats now and then, and if it runs crooked, it looks unsightly. The video solves this by using a string line, meaning I would have to regularly check with the string to make sure I’m still on track. Probably not so easy with 3 mm (0.12 inch) joints and some irregularity in the stones. I just don’t find wider joints very attractive.
What confuses me about all these YouTube videos is that almost no one uses joint spacers or makes joints larger than the transport spacers or the stones’ built-in spacers. They often place the stones directly against each other. I’ve even seen a video where a contractor says you should choose a larger joint width but then lays stones directly against each other (contact paving). That would certainly be easier, but I assume it’s not done because you can’t compensate for uneven sizes and alignments?
Does a slight radius on the stones help hide inaccuracies? What is the experience with this?
I suppose anything is possible. :-D
Nauer schrieb:
People often act as if paving laid directly on sand would immediately sink into the ground.
That's exactly how it reads. Hence my question(s) :-).
Nauer schrieb:
And yes, the missing ants were probably due more to the narrow joint combined with the north side. Dry south-facing sides with gravel joints can look like small biotopes after two summers, slightly exaggerated.
My parents had their terrace installed by a company, and they were strongly advised to bed it with gravel so they wouldn't have problems with ants. They had that done. After a short time, ants still appeared. Apparently, they also build their nests in gravel. The argument for using gravel to prevent ants doesn’t seem to hold up.
Nauer schrieb:
With a 3 mm (0.12 inch) joint, you’re already in a range where precise work is required, otherwise you will quickly drift out of line during installation. The old rectangular pavers laid with joints almost touching each other were more forgiving.
It might be worth mentioning that I want to lay a random pattern. There are four different stone sizes—basically like in this video....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk6DNc2PMEo. After watching it yesterday, I understand what you mean by working precisely... even with a random pattern, the joint repeats now and then, and if it runs crooked, it looks unsightly. The video solves this by using a string line, meaning I would have to regularly check with the string to make sure I’m still on track. Probably not so easy with 3 mm (0.12 inch) joints and some irregularity in the stones. I just don’t find wider joints very attractive.
What confuses me about all these YouTube videos is that almost no one uses joint spacers or makes joints larger than the transport spacers or the stones’ built-in spacers. They often place the stones directly against each other. I’ve even seen a video where a contractor says you should choose a larger joint width but then lays stones directly against each other (contact paving). That would certainly be easier, but I assume it’s not done because you can’t compensate for uneven sizes and alignments?
Does a slight radius on the stones help hide inaccuracies? What is the experience with this?
MachsSelbst schrieb:
Who compacts without filling the joints?
I suppose anything is possible. :-D
Nida35a schrieb:
Random two-color pattern to break up the look of the long joints and to hide the drainage towards the lawn. We didn’t want long joints along the pathway What joint spacing did you choose?
Similar topics