Hello everyone,
we are building a KfW40 house and have been advised by several sources against using a cooker hood with exhaust ventilation, as you then need to worry about sealing it off when the hood is turned off. Exhaust ventilation is not very important to me anyway.
This raises the question: do you even need an exhaust hood with a ventilation system, or does the ventilation system take care of it automatically?
we are building a KfW40 house and have been advised by several sources against using a cooker hood with exhaust ventilation, as you then need to worry about sealing it off when the hood is turned off. Exhaust ventilation is not very important to me anyway.
This raises the question: do you even need an exhaust hood with a ventilation system, or does the ventilation system take care of it automatically?
D
Doc.Schnaggls8 Nov 2016 11:26@Uwe82 :
We have a Berbel Blockline with the "permalyt recirculation filter."
Since this recirculation filter also requires a power connection and the filter housing is quite narrow, leaving no room for the double socket originally planned by the kitchen fitter, we had to install a second outlet.
We have a Berbel Blockline with the "permalyt recirculation filter."
Since this recirculation filter also requires a power connection and the filter housing is quite narrow, leaving no room for the double socket originally planned by the kitchen fitter, we had to install a second outlet.
D
Deliverer8 Nov 2016 13:36Doc.Schnaggls schrieb:
... I could have skipped the controlled residential ventilation with heat recovery.Some critics claim it would have been cheaper in any case...
On the topic: exhaust ventilation or not, a high-quality exhaust hood is a must. The noise level alone is unbearable with cheap hoods. To put it provocatively: there are no usable exhaust hoods under $2,000. For recirculating hoods, you have to spend an additional $500 to $1,000. If you have an open-plan kitchen, you should plan this as a necessary expense. After all, no one builds a modern house and then heats it with patio heaters from the hardware store...
Doc.Schnaggls schrieb:
When a wood stove comes into play, ventilation with exhaust air gets really complicated, especially if window contacts and a differential pressure monitor need to be installed.At least the pressure monitor is not necessarily required.
We handled this after an on-site appointment with the chimney sweep for our open kitchen-dining-living area as follows:
- Central controlled residential ventilation with heat recovery is set to a slight positive pressure.
- Recirculating range hood (alternative: exhaust air with window contact, cost for the contact about 50 EUR).
- Wood stove with DIBt certification, so no differential pressure monitor is needed.
Good luck.
Doc.Schnaggls schrieb:
We have a Berbel Blockline with the "recirculation filter permalyt".Ah, okay. I was already wondering why it needs two power connections, that seemed pointless. But since this is an optional accessory, it’s probably the easiest solution for the manufacturer. Given the price range, I would have expected something different.Edit: I just checked, and it’s also available for our Skyline. But the unit alone costs around 800€ and runs for up to 2 hours per regeneration cycle at about 100W. In comparison, activated carbon filters costing around 40€ every 2–3 years are definitely more cost-effective. This only makes sense if you really don’t want to deal with maintenance at all.
I just bought the test report on kitchen extractor hoods from Stiftung Warentest for €2.50.
- The Berbel BKH 90 Ergoline, costing €2000, performed relatively poorly, especially in grease separation.
- The Miele DA 6096 W and Miele DA 3466 (priced at €500) were rated "good" for grease separation, but only in exhaust mode; in recirculation mode they were rated satisfactory.
- The test included hoods capable of both recirculation and exhaust, with results reported separately for each mode.
- The same hoods consistently performed better in exhaust mode than in recirculation mode.
- In other words, all recirculation hoods still released some grease back into the room, more or less (none achieved more than 90% grease separation).
- Heat loss, airtightness, and similar factors were completely ignored; only functionality was evaluated.
- All hoods were noisier in recirculation mode compared to exhaust mode.
- In odor removal, Berbel’s charcoal filter was unbeatable.
- According to Berbel (seen in one of their catalogs), after EVERY cooking session, the hood must be wiped inside, or the filter loses its effectiveness.
- Other simple stainless steel filters should be cleaned in the dishwasher every two weeks; otherwise, their performance also declines.
For me personally, grease separation is the most important factor.
According to the test, recirculation hoods are not as effective as I had read in various forum posts and discussions previously suggested.
Above all, I was disappointed by Berbel based on the Stiftung Warentest results.
Before the test, I was leaning towards a Berbel recirculation hood (€2000). After the test, I now lean towards the Miele recirculation hood for €500 plus the Weibel WMK wall box with stainless steel worktop for €500.
That is about €1000 less initially, plus no annual filter replacements at €40 each.
Some people in other forums have tried to calculate the heat loss caused by an exhaust hood.
I can no longer provide the exact source, but I kept in mind an estimated heat loss cost of €200 per year from cooking.
That means recirculation would only pay off financially after about five years, not counting the additional effort and the disadvantages in grease separation and noise.
I don’t trust the planned controlled residential ventilation system to effectively remove remaining grease.
Also, I do not want the exhaust ducts of the controlled ventilation system to become clogged with grease.
I also believe the following:
About 1.5 meters (5 feet) away from the stove there is a window that would need to be opened when cooking.
I think this creates a draft, and the cold incoming air would also be pushed out quickly. Of course, this air will warm up, but in terms of temperature, I would rate it as lower quality than normal room air.
I have now visited a kitchen specialist twice. The first meeting was with the owner, the second with an employee who has worked there longer than the owner.
The owner said: recirculation hoods can never work as well as exhaust hoods, and some grease will always escape.
The employee said: nowadays recirculation filters are so good that nothing escapes anymore.
Everyone has their own opinion, but I don’t fully trust any expert so far.
My brother-in-law built a KfW55-level house with exhaust ventilation, and he sometimes doesn’t even open a window while cooking.
He says he has absolutely no problems, whether the window is open or not.
Many statements on this topic, whether pro or con exhaust, seem to be quite ideological.
You can probably only know for sure if you have had the chance to compare both systems side by side and experienced them.
And that’s exactly what Stiftung Warentest did, which is why I changed my preference.
Whether the test was ultimately sponsored by Miele, I obviously don’t know, but I don’t want to keep chasing ghosts forever either.
- The Berbel BKH 90 Ergoline, costing €2000, performed relatively poorly, especially in grease separation.
- The Miele DA 6096 W and Miele DA 3466 (priced at €500) were rated "good" for grease separation, but only in exhaust mode; in recirculation mode they were rated satisfactory.
- The test included hoods capable of both recirculation and exhaust, with results reported separately for each mode.
- The same hoods consistently performed better in exhaust mode than in recirculation mode.
- In other words, all recirculation hoods still released some grease back into the room, more or less (none achieved more than 90% grease separation).
- Heat loss, airtightness, and similar factors were completely ignored; only functionality was evaluated.
- All hoods were noisier in recirculation mode compared to exhaust mode.
- In odor removal, Berbel’s charcoal filter was unbeatable.
- According to Berbel (seen in one of their catalogs), after EVERY cooking session, the hood must be wiped inside, or the filter loses its effectiveness.
- Other simple stainless steel filters should be cleaned in the dishwasher every two weeks; otherwise, their performance also declines.
For me personally, grease separation is the most important factor.
According to the test, recirculation hoods are not as effective as I had read in various forum posts and discussions previously suggested.
Above all, I was disappointed by Berbel based on the Stiftung Warentest results.
Before the test, I was leaning towards a Berbel recirculation hood (€2000). After the test, I now lean towards the Miele recirculation hood for €500 plus the Weibel WMK wall box with stainless steel worktop for €500.
That is about €1000 less initially, plus no annual filter replacements at €40 each.
Some people in other forums have tried to calculate the heat loss caused by an exhaust hood.
I can no longer provide the exact source, but I kept in mind an estimated heat loss cost of €200 per year from cooking.
That means recirculation would only pay off financially after about five years, not counting the additional effort and the disadvantages in grease separation and noise.
I don’t trust the planned controlled residential ventilation system to effectively remove remaining grease.
Also, I do not want the exhaust ducts of the controlled ventilation system to become clogged with grease.
I also believe the following:
About 1.5 meters (5 feet) away from the stove there is a window that would need to be opened when cooking.
I think this creates a draft, and the cold incoming air would also be pushed out quickly. Of course, this air will warm up, but in terms of temperature, I would rate it as lower quality than normal room air.
I have now visited a kitchen specialist twice. The first meeting was with the owner, the second with an employee who has worked there longer than the owner.
The owner said: recirculation hoods can never work as well as exhaust hoods, and some grease will always escape.
The employee said: nowadays recirculation filters are so good that nothing escapes anymore.
Everyone has their own opinion, but I don’t fully trust any expert so far.
My brother-in-law built a KfW55-level house with exhaust ventilation, and he sometimes doesn’t even open a window while cooking.
He says he has absolutely no problems, whether the window is open or not.
Many statements on this topic, whether pro or con exhaust, seem to be quite ideological.
You can probably only know for sure if you have had the chance to compare both systems side by side and experienced them.
And that’s exactly what Stiftung Warentest did, which is why I changed my preference.
Whether the test was ultimately sponsored by Miele, I obviously don’t know, but I don’t want to keep chasing ghosts forever either.
I have one more question:
As I mentioned, grease separation is especially important to me. But does our "cooking style" actually produce enough grease to rule out a recirculation hood?
I think vegetables, pasta, and potatoes mostly generate steam. We sauté meat with very little oil. Fish is rarely eaten, and if so, mostly in the form of fish sticks. Occasionally, we fry patties or fried potatoes, and to prevent sticking, we use a considerably larger amount of oil, almost like deep-frying (1-3 times per month).
Is this considered a typical cooking habit, or would the fat content be so low that a recirculation hood would actually be suitable (in that case, not the expensive Berbel, but a more affordable one around 500€)?
As I mentioned, grease separation is especially important to me. But does our "cooking style" actually produce enough grease to rule out a recirculation hood?
I think vegetables, pasta, and potatoes mostly generate steam. We sauté meat with very little oil. Fish is rarely eaten, and if so, mostly in the form of fish sticks. Occasionally, we fry patties or fried potatoes, and to prevent sticking, we use a considerably larger amount of oil, almost like deep-frying (1-3 times per month).
Is this considered a typical cooking habit, or would the fat content be so low that a recirculation hood would actually be suitable (in that case, not the expensive Berbel, but a more affordable one around 500€)?
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