We have been intensively working on our kitchen planning for a little over three weeks now. Sometimes we even dream about it at night, but it’s an exciting topic.
At the moment, we have two options... a Nobilia kitchen (a good, solid mid-range choice) and Schmidt kitchens (a major European kitchen manufacturer), which we actually prefer slightly more in terms of quality.
The kitchen concept is mostly settled. Nobilia kitchens can be offered by various kitchen showrooms and are fairly easy to compare, so you quickly get a sense of the price and can find your spending limit.
However, we are at least 5,000 euros above our original budget and are a bit worried about starting construction with this in mind.
Do you have any tips or suggestions?
We have already cut back extensively on the appliances or only included what we really need. It’s simply the size that drives the total cost. We know that 10,000 euros won’t be enough, but hopefully, we can keep it under 15,000 euros.
At the moment, we have two options... a Nobilia kitchen (a good, solid mid-range choice) and Schmidt kitchens (a major European kitchen manufacturer), which we actually prefer slightly more in terms of quality.
The kitchen concept is mostly settled. Nobilia kitchens can be offered by various kitchen showrooms and are fairly easy to compare, so you quickly get a sense of the price and can find your spending limit.
However, we are at least 5,000 euros above our original budget and are a bit worried about starting construction with this in mind.
Do you have any tips or suggestions?
We have already cut back extensively on the appliances or only included what we really need. It’s simply the size that drives the total cost. We know that 10,000 euros won’t be enough, but hopefully, we can keep it under 15,000 euros.
MarcWen schrieb:
The original budget was 10,000 euros, but the current quotes range between 15,000 and 20,000 euros.We were lucky: we had a kitchen supplier who asked about the budget limit. Using the preferred surface finish, he took a sample front from Nolte (somewhat similar to yours) and explained that roughly half of the cost is typically for furniture and appliances combined.
Accordingly, he immediately raised concerns about a specific cabinet being disproportionately expensive. He offered alternatives so that our desired kitchen stayed approximately within our budget.
Our limit was 10,000, by the way, and we still only have pull-outs and drawers, plus an extra-thin countertop.
MarcWen schrieb:
From the mid-range brands, AEG, Siemens... The steam oven should be the AEG ProCombi Plus BS1835480x (retail price 2,000 euros).So, no high-end Miele... We have steam and oven from Neff for about 550 € (2013 model) each. So there’s still room to save.
MarcWen schrieb:
Roll-up shutter cabinet, 90 cm wide and full depth, to become our coffee bar, with a fully automatic coffee machine inside at the bottom.90 cm (35 inches) is expensive... both for pull-outs and the roll-up shutter.
MarcWen schrieb:
Exhaust hood was around 600 euros, I think.That’s reasonable.
MarcWen schrieb:
We have full pull-outs at the bottom because of the design lines. Doors with shelves are on top.Makes sense—we have the same and consider that a priority if you want a nice kitchen.
MarcWen schrieb:
But as I said, there are many cabinets,Way too many.
MarcWen schrieb:
Do you have any tips or suggestions?As I said before: I find the kitchen quite nice in terms of design (similar to ours, actually), but the left section is much too bulky.
The 90 cm (35 inches) roll-up shutter looks too wide in the drawing and will probably seem too bulky in real life as well.
My advice would be to leave that out and instead consider a completely different piece of furniture for the coffee bar—like a sideboard or buffet—that contrasts with the abundance of high-gloss Nobilia units.
Having plenty of storage is better than too little, but maybe this is overkill? The workspace on the left side appears quite long, so the tall cabinets end up being somewhat far from the main work area because of the island.
My general suggestion would be to reduce the left side somewhat and perhaps use the freed-up space for individual pieces or later add a wine cabinet or similar item.
andimann schrieb:
Hi,
A long warranty is probably the most reliable indicator of quality (in terms of durability, not appearance or feel) there is. I don’t put much faith in all those warranty promises. Usually, you end up having to prove your case, and that’s stressful. Much more important for us are skilled craftsmen who assemble the kitchen properly. That’s half the battle. Our current standard kitchen is 14 years old and was second-hand when we got it. The appliances have been replaced by now, but the actual cabinets are still holding up. So I’m quite confident that any reasonable kitchen can easily last 20+ years with proper use.
We like shopping at the Swedish store and are fans of the Pax system, but we don’t want to get the kitchen from there. Sure, you could put in the effort to design and compare kitchens there, but is it really possible without making a hundred compromises and concessions?
I was hoping for a buy-two-kitchens-pay-for-one deal, but apparently, that doesn’t exist.
ypg schrieb:
@MarcWen By the way, I really like your ground floor!
Did we discuss this before? Does it include a basement?Yes, we did, a few days ago:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/Mehrfamilienhaus-3-weh-Wohnkeller-Doppelgarage-Anregungen-zur-Planung.14117/
It comes complete with a finished basement.
It was the design where someone wanted a rooftop terrace above the garage. But the building authority put a stop to those plans.
ypg schrieb:
We got lucky: we had a kitchen salesperson who asked about our budget. For the preferred surface material, he took a quote from Nolte (quite similar to yours) and said that you can roughly split the total cost 50/50 between furniture and appliances.
So, when it came to a specific cabinet, he immediately expressed concerns that it might be overpriced relative to the rest. He offered alternatives so that our dream kitchen stayed roughly within our limit.
By the way, our limit was 10,000, and we still ended up with only drawers and pull-outs, plus an extra-thin countertop.We have another appointment at Schmidt on Saturday; they are our small favorite regarding expertise and quality.
But ultimately, the price will decide, which we don’t have yet.
The advantage was that we took something from every conversation and incorporated it. So no time was wasted.
My wife also has certain ideas, for example, above the cooktop, there will definitely be a glass panel with an orange motif, which will continue the color scheme of the wallpaper on the right wall.
We “borrowed” that image from Nolte for now; maybe you can find something similar somewhere else for less.
It’s always interesting to see which promotion is currently running. Apparently, next month Schmidt has an offer where internal drawers are free, which would be interesting for us as well.
ypg schrieb:
So, no high-end Miele... We have steam oven and standard oven from Neff, each about 550 € (year 2013). So there is still room to save.No, everything is solid mid-range.
ypg schrieb:
The 90cm (35 inches) unit is expensive... drawers as well as roller shutter.I don’t have an individual price now. We saw it in a show home and wanted it exactly like that.
In the morning, the shutter rolls up, coffee machine goes on, and next to it there’s still space for cups and a tray.
In the evening, the shutter rolls down and everything is neat and tidy.
ypg schrieb:
As I said, I find the kitchen design nice (it’s quite similar to ours), but I think the left part is way too bulky.
The 90cm (35 inches) roller shutter looks too wide on the drawing and will probably feel too wide in reality as well.
My tip would be to leave it out and instead shop for a completely different piece of furniture as a coffee bar — maybe a chest of drawers or sideboard, which contrasts with the glossy Nobilia cabinets.
More storage is better than too little, but maybe this borders on overkill? The workspace on the left side seems quite long, so the tall cabinets are a bit too far away from the island’s working area.
My general suggestion would be to reduce the left side a bit and maybe fill the gained space later with individual pieces or a wine fridge or something else.We also considered leaving something out, but that’s not our style. It’s visible all the time, and I wouldn’t be happy with that.
Better to bite the bullet and spend more if the price is truly justified.
But we also want to practice discipline and learn, otherwise, in the end, there won’t be enough left for the tiler.
We also looked at several kitchens back then, but the kitchen installer was already included in the house construction (because a kitchen was included in the purchase price with the general contractor). We still checked out Ikea kitchens. My father, an experienced carpenter, has seen countless kitchens in his life. The carcass is the same pressed chipboard junk from almost all kitchen manufacturers. Solid real wood carcass cabinets don’t exist within the 15,000–20,000€ (approx. $16,000–$21,000) price range. After installation, nobody really notices it anyway. The price is mainly determined by the cabinet fronts and, of course, the countertop. Kitchen appliances are a completely different topic.
There are also differences in hinges, although they don’t affect prices at wholesale.
The cheapest way to get a top kitchen:
- Buy carcass units from Ikea (as long as all the units you want are available)
- Have the fronts made by a cabinetmaker, including hinges
- Order the countertop from a stone mason (granite)
- Order kitchen appliances online
- Assemble the carcass units yourself
This also saves the costs of outsourcing. When you order a granite countertop from the kitchen builder, they order it from a stone mason and add a hefty markup.
Standard tips:
- Oven at countertop height!
- Cabinets under the countertop should be pull-out drawers, so you can see everything when opened. Doors mean you often have to bend over deeply.
- Pull-out pantry units are expensive but really spacious. We have a 40cm (16 inch) unit and wouldn’t go without it. Great feature.
- An ice maker in the freezer is really, really cool.
- Induction cooktops are practically a must.
- The price difference between budget brand appliances like Construkta and Neff is quite manageable (especially compared to what some cabinet fronts cost extra...).
- Pyrolytic self-cleaning ovens work well and are really convenient.
- For open kitchens, buy a quiet dishwasher. The dishwasher can also be installed at countertop height but doesn’t have to be.
- Silgranit sinks are excellent. Stainless steel sinks are not recommended (scratch easily, always look dirty, develop surface rust).
- Buy a proper waste separation system inside the cabinet. Best if it opens automatically when you pull the drawer (so you don’t have to open it twice). Buy containers that actually hold enough and don’t need to be replaced after two yogurt cups. Seriously consider how many compartments you really need (we have two: one for recycling and one for paper). Biowaste goes out right away, general trash is rarely produced in the kitchen.
- And most importantly: buy your kitchen with a higher countertop height! Everyone buys the "standard height" (82–87cm / 32–34 inches) just because it's standard, and then complains about a sore back. Our countertop height is 100cm (39 inches), the maximum the kitchen builder offered, and everyone who has cooked using it praised how great the height is. The kitchen builder said he hasn’t sold two kitchens in that height in 5 years. I wonder why?! Definitely try it out in the showroom! P.S.: The people testing it were not particularly tall (about 175cm / 5’9”).
There are also differences in hinges, although they don’t affect prices at wholesale.
The cheapest way to get a top kitchen:
- Buy carcass units from Ikea (as long as all the units you want are available)
- Have the fronts made by a cabinetmaker, including hinges
- Order the countertop from a stone mason (granite)
- Order kitchen appliances online
- Assemble the carcass units yourself
This also saves the costs of outsourcing. When you order a granite countertop from the kitchen builder, they order it from a stone mason and add a hefty markup.
Standard tips:
- Oven at countertop height!
- Cabinets under the countertop should be pull-out drawers, so you can see everything when opened. Doors mean you often have to bend over deeply.
- Pull-out pantry units are expensive but really spacious. We have a 40cm (16 inch) unit and wouldn’t go without it. Great feature.
- An ice maker in the freezer is really, really cool.
- Induction cooktops are practically a must.
- The price difference between budget brand appliances like Construkta and Neff is quite manageable (especially compared to what some cabinet fronts cost extra...).
- Pyrolytic self-cleaning ovens work well and are really convenient.
- For open kitchens, buy a quiet dishwasher. The dishwasher can also be installed at countertop height but doesn’t have to be.
- Silgranit sinks are excellent. Stainless steel sinks are not recommended (scratch easily, always look dirty, develop surface rust).
- Buy a proper waste separation system inside the cabinet. Best if it opens automatically when you pull the drawer (so you don’t have to open it twice). Buy containers that actually hold enough and don’t need to be replaced after two yogurt cups. Seriously consider how many compartments you really need (we have two: one for recycling and one for paper). Biowaste goes out right away, general trash is rarely produced in the kitchen.
- And most importantly: buy your kitchen with a higher countertop height! Everyone buys the "standard height" (82–87cm / 32–34 inches) just because it's standard, and then complains about a sore back. Our countertop height is 100cm (39 inches), the maximum the kitchen builder offered, and everyone who has cooked using it praised how great the height is. The kitchen builder said he hasn’t sold two kitchens in that height in 5 years. I wonder why?! Definitely try it out in the showroom! P.S.: The people testing it were not particularly tall (about 175cm / 5’9”).
Similar topics