Hello!
Since this is an extension, I can’t answer most points of the profile properly or only insufficiently. So I’ll simply describe my situation as it is. If this is not desired for clarity reasons, I can of course take the time and try to fill out the profile. My first attempt just now was rather pointless
Attached you’ll find a draft created by the architect. The changes to be made are marked in red. The extension is on the upper floor, identical to the already existing extension on the ground floor (where the building is being raised accordingly).
What is still missing there is that the wall in the original building between the hallway and child’s room 2 is to be shifted about 1.5m (5 feet) to the right according to the plan, so that child’s room 2 becomes larger. I hope you understand what I mean. All doors remain as they are, only the hallway passage from the original building to the new extension will be narrower.
We were actually quite satisfied with the plan. Cost estimate: €150,000
Detailed breakdown (offers available)
- ~€58,000 Timber frame construction including roof structure, insulation, exterior sheathing panels, and all related work
- ~€12,000 Windows and doors
- ~€25,000 Underfloor heating, plumbing, bathroom including stretch ceiling with lighting (bathroom only)
- ~€15,000 Floor coverings including screed boards, wallpaper, and paint (all including installation)
- ~€5,000 Electrical installation (a lot of own work)
- ~€15,000 Measures on the existing building including protection during construction phase
- ~€10,000 Roof terrace on existing garage including stairs to the garden
- ~€10,000 New kitchen
Now it seems that we want a third child. Then there will be no space for another child’s bedroom again. I simply can’t imagine this with the existing plan. If at all, it would have to be the living room area that is already partly separated by the partition wall, although this would make the living room feel very narrow, which we don’t like even in theory.
On the ground floor, an (unapproved) conservatory has been built on the upper side of the plan, measuring about 10 by 2.5m (33 by 8 feet).
My idea is to give this a foundation and erect supporting pillars, so that the upper floor would have a gross floor area of 10 by 9.5m (33 by 31 feet) instead of 10 by 7m (33 by 23 feet). Structurally this should be fine. Then the separated living room area could indeed be used as a master bedroom, leaving a 6 by 5m (20 by 16 feet) living room. The kitchen would also be about 5 by 2.5m (16 by 8 feet) bigger, which could create a pantry or something similar, or a covered balcony by the kitchen (I would really like that for an outdoor fryer => no odors in the open kitchen,...).
The existing conservatory could remain as is; glass elements would just need to be installed between the new supporting pillars.
Cost estimate: With an additional 20m² (215 sq ft) of living space, I would estimate the project would then cost about €200,000 instead of the planned €150,000.
What do you think? Do you have better ideas? Do you consider the costs realistic? I mean, I do have the offers, but maybe something essential is missing?
Are you missing important information or do you insist on the profile? Just let me know
Thank you very much. We look forward to your feedback and ideas!
Regards,
Xorrhal
Since this is an extension, I can’t answer most points of the profile properly or only insufficiently. So I’ll simply describe my situation as it is. If this is not desired for clarity reasons, I can of course take the time and try to fill out the profile. My first attempt just now was rather pointless
Attached you’ll find a draft created by the architect. The changes to be made are marked in red. The extension is on the upper floor, identical to the already existing extension on the ground floor (where the building is being raised accordingly).
What is still missing there is that the wall in the original building between the hallway and child’s room 2 is to be shifted about 1.5m (5 feet) to the right according to the plan, so that child’s room 2 becomes larger. I hope you understand what I mean. All doors remain as they are, only the hallway passage from the original building to the new extension will be narrower.
We were actually quite satisfied with the plan. Cost estimate: €150,000
Detailed breakdown (offers available)
- ~€58,000 Timber frame construction including roof structure, insulation, exterior sheathing panels, and all related work
- ~€12,000 Windows and doors
- ~€25,000 Underfloor heating, plumbing, bathroom including stretch ceiling with lighting (bathroom only)
- ~€15,000 Floor coverings including screed boards, wallpaper, and paint (all including installation)
- ~€5,000 Electrical installation (a lot of own work)
- ~€15,000 Measures on the existing building including protection during construction phase
- ~€10,000 Roof terrace on existing garage including stairs to the garden
- ~€10,000 New kitchen
Now it seems that we want a third child. Then there will be no space for another child’s bedroom again. I simply can’t imagine this with the existing plan. If at all, it would have to be the living room area that is already partly separated by the partition wall, although this would make the living room feel very narrow, which we don’t like even in theory.
On the ground floor, an (unapproved) conservatory has been built on the upper side of the plan, measuring about 10 by 2.5m (33 by 8 feet).
My idea is to give this a foundation and erect supporting pillars, so that the upper floor would have a gross floor area of 10 by 9.5m (33 by 31 feet) instead of 10 by 7m (33 by 23 feet). Structurally this should be fine. Then the separated living room area could indeed be used as a master bedroom, leaving a 6 by 5m (20 by 16 feet) living room. The kitchen would also be about 5 by 2.5m (16 by 8 feet) bigger, which could create a pantry or something similar, or a covered balcony by the kitchen (I would really like that for an outdoor fryer => no odors in the open kitchen,...).
The existing conservatory could remain as is; glass elements would just need to be installed between the new supporting pillars.
Cost estimate: With an additional 20m² (215 sq ft) of living space, I would estimate the project would then cost about €200,000 instead of the planned €150,000.
What do you think? Do you have better ideas? Do you consider the costs realistic? I mean, I do have the offers, but maybe something essential is missing?
Are you missing important information or do you insist on the profile? Just let me know
Thank you very much. We look forward to your feedback and ideas!
Regards,
Xorrhal
Joedreck schrieb:
Is it maybe possible to add a floor?I don’t think so, even though building regulations here are quite flexible. The city’s power lines would have to be relocated and everything. I can’t imagine that would be economically feasible at all, if it’s even allowed.
kaho674 schrieb:
Just for fun, I sketched in large windows (fixed at the bottom, openable at the top) and doors with French balconies. I also added the square meters as a guideline. The exact external dimensions are unknown and were estimated using a ruler and proportion calculations.
With a modern and stylish open-plan kitchen, I can really imagine it well.
Looks really interesting. I like it too.
But the question is, what would the costs be? I now have a well-calculated figure from a bank for an extension (fully increasing the value) of about €150,000 to €200,000 (about $161,000 to $214,000). A “conversion” is not recognized as fully value-increasing, so I have to budget significantly less for that. And that probably won’t be enough to move or fully support load-bearing walls, the exterior wall of the old building, and so on.
Arifas schrieb:
I really like this again [emoji85] [emoji23] .
I think the original poster probably needs a break to sort things out. Whether extension or new build, they have quite a big project ahead.Correct, as I mentioned, I had the first bank meeting over the weekend.
My advisor discouraged me from a new build. At least under the conditions I mentioned — selling the house with a €100,000 (about $107,000) “profit,” and a new build including land for €600,000 (about $643,000). He said that from a bank perspective, it could be arranged with some tricks and adjustments, but that would be the absolute maximum monthly financial burden — and considering there might be three children, he strongly advised against it. It would be somewhat different with two children and if my wife returned to full-time work — but even then, it would be a risky project.
So a new build is possible, but under these circumstances it’s too risky. To be feasible and financially solid, the total cost for the new build including land, incidental construction costs, and a granny flat would have to be reduced to a maximum of €500,000 (about $536,000).
The situation looks much better for an extension, and I have an offer to finance an EXTENSION for about €150,000 (about $161,000), which fully fits within our budget (details in another thread).
He emphasized again that this applies to an extension, so measures that almost fully increase the property value. Renovations in the existing building count only partially (about 50%) as value increase — meaning that while the monthly financial burden might remain unchanged, the loan security simply wouldn’t be possible.
Xorrhal schrieb:
Looks really interesting. I like it a lot too.
But the question is, what will the costs be like... And that probably won’t be enough to move and newly support load-bearing walls, the exterior wall of the old building, and so on. I don’t want to sound arrogant, but I don’t believe another floor plan can fit three children’s bedrooms of reasonable size into the same area. That said, I have to mention that my sister and I shared one room until we were 10. It worked great and was perfectly fine.
Maybe the architect or structural engineer can take a look at it. One or two columns in the room could even work well as dividers between the kitchen/dining area and the living space—possibly. But I agree with you that it won’t be simple structurally. You’re right about that.
We have an architect who is also a structural engineer. The original plan for the extension comes from them.
Regardless of cost-effectiveness, it has to be feasible. If I need to borrow 20,000€ more, that’s not a problem. The monthly payments at that scale are manageable. But the collateral is an issue – I can’t get 250,000€ for the renovation if the house doesn’t increase in value by at least 200,000€, which is likely difficult to impossible.
An extension that adds 60m² (approximately 650 square feet) of living space for 150,000€ is financially feasible – quite manageable, actually. A renovation including an extension that also adds 60m² of living space for 150,000€ is therefore also affordable.
But if the extension alone costs 150,000€, where is the budget for the renovation? I can only get up to, say, 50,000€ for that. Given the changes required, I consider that simply impossible. For 50,000€, you can't redesign the entire structural framework of the house, since almost an entire exterior wall including the roof would need to be demolished. Not to mention that the old building already has underfloor heating with separate heating circuits in each room...
I do realize, however, that it is almost impossible to fit everything needed solely into the extension, even if it were extended by an additional 3m by 10m (10 feet by 33 feet) towards the back (top of plan).
The only solution that seems doable to me (whether it looks good is another matter) would be to leave the old building completely as is, except that Child 2 would use the new bathroom. Where the new bathroom would be in the extension (right side on the plan), a slightly larger children’s room (4m by 4m, approximately 13 feet by 13 feet) would be placed. On the exact opposite side (left side on the plan), the master bedroom (4m by 4m) would have direct access to the bathroom.
By extending the addition by 3m by 10m towards the back, the living/dining room would still measure about 5m by 7m (16 feet by 23 feet), and the kitchen would still be approximately 3m by 5m (10 feet by 16 feet). All measurements are approximate.
I’ll try to sketch it out.
Regardless of cost-effectiveness, it has to be feasible. If I need to borrow 20,000€ more, that’s not a problem. The monthly payments at that scale are manageable. But the collateral is an issue – I can’t get 250,000€ for the renovation if the house doesn’t increase in value by at least 200,000€, which is likely difficult to impossible.
An extension that adds 60m² (approximately 650 square feet) of living space for 150,000€ is financially feasible – quite manageable, actually. A renovation including an extension that also adds 60m² of living space for 150,000€ is therefore also affordable.
But if the extension alone costs 150,000€, where is the budget for the renovation? I can only get up to, say, 50,000€ for that. Given the changes required, I consider that simply impossible. For 50,000€, you can't redesign the entire structural framework of the house, since almost an entire exterior wall including the roof would need to be demolished. Not to mention that the old building already has underfloor heating with separate heating circuits in each room...
I do realize, however, that it is almost impossible to fit everything needed solely into the extension, even if it were extended by an additional 3m by 10m (10 feet by 33 feet) towards the back (top of plan).
The only solution that seems doable to me (whether it looks good is another matter) would be to leave the old building completely as is, except that Child 2 would use the new bathroom. Where the new bathroom would be in the extension (right side on the plan), a slightly larger children’s room (4m by 4m, approximately 13 feet by 13 feet) would be placed. On the exact opposite side (left side on the plan), the master bedroom (4m by 4m) would have direct access to the bathroom.
By extending the addition by 3m by 10m towards the back, the living/dining room would still measure about 5m by 7m (16 feet by 23 feet), and the kitchen would still be approximately 3m by 5m (10 feet by 16 feet). All measurements are approximate.
I’ll try to sketch it out.
Well, if you have an architect, why not hire them for this task?
A buildable extension must meet criteria x and y.
The existing building may only be modified in a minimally invasive way.
Then the architect will consider everything and create the plans for you.
You can go back and forth with the drawings here, but you won’t have certainty regarding the approval, even if something was approved before.
Even though you dismissed adding another floor so quickly, I wouldn’t completely rule it out. It might be possible to develop the attic to accommodate the bedrooms there.
You have certain no-goes (which I don’t want to judge), but that significantly limits your open thinking. You’re basically fixated on a single option and are trying to push it through with a lot of back and forth.
Someone with an open mind who understands all the requirements would be a better contact for this.
A buildable extension must meet criteria x and y.
The existing building may only be modified in a minimally invasive way.
Then the architect will consider everything and create the plans for you.
You can go back and forth with the drawings here, but you won’t have certainty regarding the approval, even if something was approved before.
Even though you dismissed adding another floor so quickly, I wouldn’t completely rule it out. It might be possible to develop the attic to accommodate the bedrooms there.
You have certain no-goes (which I don’t want to judge), but that significantly limits your open thinking. You’re basically fixated on a single option and are trying to push it through with a lot of back and forth.
Someone with an open mind who understands all the requirements would be a better contact for this.
Xorrhal schrieb:
. For 50,000€, you can’t rebuild the entire structural framework of the house just because nearly a whole exterior wall including the roof has to be demolished. Not to mention that the old building has underfloor heating installed everywhere, with different heating circuits for each room... I don’t understand why the roof is affected differently than with the architect’s extension.
Do you think it will be cheaper to add an additional 3x10m = 30m² than to remove half of the exterior wall and properly support it? *skeptically scratching head*
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