Hello everyone, about three weeks ago we distributed notices in the neighborhood informing that the street in front of our property would be fully closed for construction work. We did not mention that the crane would be responsible for the closure, only that the street would be closed. The crane has been on the street since yesterday. So far, no loads have been moved using it.
Today, we received a call from a neighbor stating that this was not properly announced and that they do not allow the crane to swing over their property. The crane rotates in the wind (which it must), and naturally moves over all the houses. This is a very densely built and compact residential area. (For context: the street must be completely closed for the crane to operate.)
To build here, the crane inevitably has to swing over one or another property. However, loads will definitely not be moved over that neighbor’s property.
According to Google and court rulings, this could potentially cause problems for us legally. We are uncertain, as the crane will remain on site for some time and will continue to move in the wind. We have allowed neighbors’ cars to park on our property before the work started. We also permitted scaffolding for a neighbor to plaster their wall; we would never have decided otherwise and never expected to receive such a response.
I will, of course, speak with the construction company on Monday, but maybe someone here has an idea or has experienced a similar situation.
Today, we received a call from a neighbor stating that this was not properly announced and that they do not allow the crane to swing over their property. The crane rotates in the wind (which it must), and naturally moves over all the houses. This is a very densely built and compact residential area. (For context: the street must be completely closed for the crane to operate.)
To build here, the crane inevitably has to swing over one or another property. However, loads will definitely not be moved over that neighbor’s property.
According to Google and court rulings, this could potentially cause problems for us legally. We are uncertain, as the crane will remain on site for some time and will continue to move in the wind. We have allowed neighbors’ cars to park on our property before the work started. We also permitted scaffolding for a neighbor to plaster their wall; we would never have decided otherwise and never expected to receive such a response.
I will, of course, speak with the construction company on Monday, but maybe someone here has an idea or has experienced a similar situation.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for all of you. People like that often just want to be respected and consulted. Being polite and apologizing can already help a lot. I hope this will solve the issue, which would be great especially since you plan to live next to each other for several more years.
We had a similar topic about two years ago: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/ampelregelung-bei-halbseitiger-strassensperrung.30237/ (and I believe there was another one, but I can’t find it right now or it was in the Green forum).
The building density of the area has not just appeared recently; you should have looked into alternatives to the popular tower crane beforehand. Leaving the neighbors to deal with this, in my opinion, is not acceptable (although I can’t rule out that your regional neighbor rights might prioritize convenience over reason). If this had been me, you would have lost my trust forever for deliberately withholding the core issue. Diplomacy works differently.
Moreover, it’s not the wind that turns the crane, but a motor; and the crane does not necessarily have to rotate over all houses. The duty of care to “plan” crane slewing movements lies primarily with the crane operator but also strongly with the client. A permit for road closure is not a general amnesty and does not automatically imply permission from neighbors to swing over their property—you should have obtained this consent from the neighbor (although your local laws may be more lenient). If no other neighbors raise concerns, you can likely plan longer crane rotations to avoid swinging over that neighbor’s land.
The neighbor’s concerns are legitimate, and honestly, I sometimes can’t understand how naive some people are when it comes to the safety of those living around them. I would hardly be worried about fines. Law enforcement will come, and if the crane operator does not comply after being addressed, he could be issued a trespass or exclusion order. What does your site safety coordinator (SiGeKo) say?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Marc240 schrieb:
Three weeks ago, we handed out notices in the street stating that the road by our property would be fully closed for construction work. We didn’t mention that the crane was responsible for this—only that the road would be closed. The crane has been on the street since yesterday. So far, no loads have been moved with it.
Today, a neighbor called us saying this wasn’t announced and that he does not allow the crane to swing over his property. The crane rotates in the wind (which it has to, right?) and naturally moves over all the houses. This is a densely built and narrow residential area.
The building density of the area has not just appeared recently; you should have looked into alternatives to the popular tower crane beforehand. Leaving the neighbors to deal with this, in my opinion, is not acceptable (although I can’t rule out that your regional neighbor rights might prioritize convenience over reason). If this had been me, you would have lost my trust forever for deliberately withholding the core issue. Diplomacy works differently.
Moreover, it’s not the wind that turns the crane, but a motor; and the crane does not necessarily have to rotate over all houses. The duty of care to “plan” crane slewing movements lies primarily with the crane operator but also strongly with the client. A permit for road closure is not a general amnesty and does not automatically imply permission from neighbors to swing over their property—you should have obtained this consent from the neighbor (although your local laws may be more lenient). If no other neighbors raise concerns, you can likely plan longer crane rotations to avoid swinging over that neighbor’s land.
The neighbor’s concerns are legitimate, and honestly, I sometimes can’t understand how naive some people are when it comes to the safety of those living around them. I would hardly be worried about fines. Law enforcement will come, and if the crane operator does not comply after being addressed, he could be issued a trespass or exclusion order. What does your site safety coordinator (SiGeKo) say?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
KingJulien16 Jul 2023 04:57Marc240 schrieb:
The crane rotates in the wind (it has to, right?!) and naturally moves over all the houses. Marc240 schrieb:
However, loads must definitely not be carried over his property. 11ant schrieb:
By the way, it’s not the wind turning the crane, but a motor. What is there to doubt now? Being wind-free should be obvious?
11ant schrieb:
If it were me, you would be out forever for cleverly withholding the core of the matter. Seriously?
Where do you read anything about clever withholding?
Quite sensitive for your type.
By the way, you can be right and still act cooperatively.
Then you are not only well informed but also a pleasant person to deal with.
There was nothing done with malicious intent; according to the original poster, he did not knowingly withhold information but only learned late about the necessity to communicate this, see:
There is also a difference between planning to swing tons of concrete elements over someone’s house and merely crossing the airspace above a corner of the property. Without more information, we can’t know which applies here.
But what else is he supposed to do if there is no other option? The reason why the laws probably allow this when no alternatives exist is that otherwise construction couldn’t continue.
That said, my second approach—after trying again to talk with the neighbor—would be to inform the construction company that the neighbor does not accept the swinging over. Maybe there is still an alternative.
Marc240 schrieb:
I unfortunately only found out today about the swinging over properties, after the call, after googling...
I know ignorance is no excuse, but there has really been a lot on our minds lately; we distributed the documents and believed everyone was informed.
There is also a difference between planning to swing tons of concrete elements over someone’s house and merely crossing the airspace above a corner of the property. Without more information, we can’t know which applies here.
But what else is he supposed to do if there is no other option? The reason why the laws probably allow this when no alternatives exist is that otherwise construction couldn’t continue.
That said, my second approach—after trying again to talk with the neighbor—would be to inform the construction company that the neighbor does not accept the swinging over. Maybe there is still an alternative.
C
Costruttrice16 Jul 2023 09:0511ant schrieb:
By the way, it’s not the wind that turns the crane, but a motor; and it doesn’t have to swing over all the houses either. Actually, yes.
When the crane is not in use (in the evenings, at night, on weekends), it is set to be free to move with the wind. This means that only the wind determines how the crane turns, and you cannot exclude the neighbors from this, even if you wanted to.
The original poster has already ruled out loads being lifted over the neighbor’s property.
Marc240 schrieb:
And under no circumstances should loads be lifted over their property. But even in that case, the neighbor would have to agree if there is no alternative or if it would only be possible with unreasonable effort.
This has nothing to do with
11ant schrieb:
Your local law might be more lenient. but rather with neighbor law that exists in every federal state. It regulates not only what you must not do and what you have to consider when doing something, but also what you, as a neighbor, must tolerate and where you might be entitled to compensation.
W
WilderSueden16 Jul 2023 10:50The crane must be able to rotate with the wind. Otherwise, during the next storm it could end up in the neighbor’s garden or on their roof. A few years ago, we had a similar case in Konstanz where the crane took out the railway line.