Hello everyone,
We are planning to buy a plot of land next year and want to start familiarizing ourselves with the topic now, so we are prepared when the time comes. At the moment, we are looking into several prefab house suppliers, but we are leaning more toward self-building.
So far, I’m not sure which professionals or contractors are needed for self-building and what exactly each of them does. For example, who is responsible for the foundation slab or basement, and what else does that company handle? Do I need to arrange a crane myself, or does the contractor take care of that? I have some idea about the heating technician and electrician roles, but I’ve also heard that the heating technician might install the drainpipes. The shell construction is done by bricklayers, but what else do they do, and what tasks still need to be completed?
I hope my questions make sense. It would be great to have an Excel sheet listing all the points, ideally divided by construction phases and including price ranges for reference. I want to understand which contractor I need first and what services they provide. Then I can gather information and get quotes, followed by the next contractor, and so on. Of course, there are optional aspects like smart home systems, but I know, for example, that these are installed by the electrician. So if I want system XY, I can specifically look for an electrician who handles both general house wiring and that system.
I also want to use this list as a checklist and cost control tool during construction. That means comparing our planned costs with the actual expenses.
Do such lists exist? I would also be willing to pay for a very good list or even a program if it is comprehensive and useful.
Thanks in advance :-)
Peter
We are planning to buy a plot of land next year and want to start familiarizing ourselves with the topic now, so we are prepared when the time comes. At the moment, we are looking into several prefab house suppliers, but we are leaning more toward self-building.
So far, I’m not sure which professionals or contractors are needed for self-building and what exactly each of them does. For example, who is responsible for the foundation slab or basement, and what else does that company handle? Do I need to arrange a crane myself, or does the contractor take care of that? I have some idea about the heating technician and electrician roles, but I’ve also heard that the heating technician might install the drainpipes. The shell construction is done by bricklayers, but what else do they do, and what tasks still need to be completed?
I hope my questions make sense. It would be great to have an Excel sheet listing all the points, ideally divided by construction phases and including price ranges for reference. I want to understand which contractor I need first and what services they provide. Then I can gather information and get quotes, followed by the next contractor, and so on. Of course, there are optional aspects like smart home systems, but I know, for example, that these are installed by the electrician. So if I want system XY, I can specifically look for an electrician who handles both general house wiring and that system.
I also want to use this list as a checklist and cost control tool during construction. That means comparing our planned costs with the actual expenses.
Do such lists exist? I would also be willing to pay for a very good list or even a program if it is comprehensive and useful.
Thanks in advance :-)
Peter
M
MIA_SAN_MIA__18 Oct 2017 15:15Interior plastering and drywall installation do not necessarily have to be covered by the shell construction contractor. The screed doesn’t have to be included either. In your case, I would list these separately, and if the shell contractor agrees to do them, that’s great, but if not, at least you are aware of it.
For a 200m² (2,150 sq ft) house, having a 400m² (4,300 sq ft) lot with a garage left doesn’t leave much green space. Is that intentional?
For a 200m² (2,150 sq ft) house, having a 400m² (4,300 sq ft) lot with a garage left doesn’t leave much green space. Is that intentional?
Peter L. schrieb:
...
This is also one reason why we tend to keep some distance from prefabricated houses. You often read that not all costs are mentioned upfront and a lot of work has to be done on site later. Additionally, the selection of finishes usually happens quite late, and no one can provide information on how much it will cost.
...!You can’t make such a general statement!
Please define “prefabricated houses” for us. Usually, it means timber frame construction or something similar.
But there is also the option of a solid masonry house.
Whether self-builders opt for prefabricated houses or general contractors for masonry houses, things are not as bad as you describe.
And then there is self-building with an architect. As you know, the architect can coordinate the trades and costs.
In any case, you will need one for the building permit / planning permission.
I don’t understand your intention: do you want to calculate and commission all the trades yourself now?
What if something in the basic structure is overlooked by you and your house is built on the wrong foundation according to your specifications? Who would you hold liable then?
Peter L. schrieb:
by
1. creating a detailed cost breakdown and monitoring expenses during the construction phase
2. including a sufficient contingency buffer Point "2." will also be necessary if point "1." is only monitored during the construction phase. Otherwise, any additional costs on the ground floor would lead to the consequence of reducing or omitting the upper floor ;-)
Don’t forget to include overhead costs in the contingency buffer (which tend to increase the more savings are made on the execution plans).
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
MIA_SAN_MIA__ schrieb:
With a 200m² (2150 sq ft) house on a 400m² (4300 sq ft) plot including the garage, there isn’t really much green space left. Is that intentional? Yes and no. A 400m² (4300 sq ft) plot with 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space is the minimum for us. The plots in the new development area are supposed to range between 400m² (4300 sq ft) and 600m² (6450 sq ft). Depending on what we get, the living space will also vary, but we don’t want less than 160m² (1720 sq ft). If we only get 400m² (4300 sq ft), the living space obviously won’t be 200m² (2150 sq ft).
@ypg
I didn’t mean to portray prefab house suppliers negatively. They are still an option for us.
We have three options:
1. Prefabricated home suppliers using timber frame or solid construction
2. Property developer
3. Self-build
For the first two options, we have already looked at several suppliers and requested quotes. So we have a rough idea of the direction we want to take.
Now we are at the self-build stage. We need detailed information here to assess whether it will be cheaper, and if so, whether the extra effort and risk are worth it. By self-build, I mean that we would manage the contracts ourselves. We have electricians, painters, carpenters, civil engineers, landscapers, and building inspectors in our family and circle of acquaintances, which speaks in favor of self-building.
In the end, we have:
1. For example, Okal Haus would build the house for amount x
2. Developer A would build a similar house for amount y
3. For self-managed contracts, we estimate amount z
If we choose one option, I want to consciously reject the other two. For that, I need the details. Of course, this is a simplified outline, but I wanted to briefly explain the background.
Naturally, my initial overview will be rough and raise further questions, but you have to start somewhere. That means I’m gathering information about shell builders in our area, talking to them and requesting offers. During these conversations, I will surely learn new information that I can research further. Over time, I will certainly become less uninformed ;-)
Peter L. schrieb:
In the end, we have the following:
1. For example, Okal Haus would build the house for a total sum x
2. Developer A builds a similar house for the sum y
3. When managing the build yourself, you arrive at the sum zOne, two or three – pop, that means: Stop – whether you are right or not, the results will tell you immediately 🙂With the specific (lack of) knowledge of a novice, among options "1" and "2," the one who writes their scope of work most misleadingly usually comes out best. The "developer" here is actually the "general contractor" (main contractor or prime contractor) – unless you also want to buy the plot from them, but with a developer, options "1" and "3" automatically don’t apply. Within group 3, your biggest enemy is yourself, because every small error in calculating lengths, areas, and volumes works against you, as these are essential cost factors (for the materials themselves and any deviation between planned and actual work). I’ve already mentioned the tricky issue of "time and material" hours.
If you enter this triangle of choices with little specific experience, instead of the logically expected result "best offer," you end up choosing the “phantom winner” – the “last noticed mistake.”
The overconfidence that you can keep track of three moving parts at once is the foundation of the "shell game" business model and probably eternal in its popularity. The lesson learned can cost more than any architect’s fee, if you ask me.
But the dream of paying for about 20 sqm (215 sq ft) of your living space just by playing apprentice architect is probably very tempting. At least you will always be in good company, as this mistake is regularly made by people with “higher education” degrees as well.
By the way, here is a fresh example discussed recently: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/sockelputz-nicht-bestandteil-eines-hauses.25755/ – only two contractors and already something overlooked ...
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https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
S
Steffen8019 Oct 2017 09:34Peter L. schrieb:
What bothered me in your first post was simply the assumption ;-) We have already talked to several developers and architects, and our financial estimate is solid and even somewhat on the high side. But I know ourselves, and you’re right, people often spend more or want more than they can afford. I try to counteract this by
1. creating a solid cost breakdown and monitoring expenses during the construction phase
2. including enough contingency
This is also a reason why we keep some distance from prefab houses. You often read that not all costs are mentioned and later a lot of work has to be done on the building side. Additionally, selections are made rather late, and no one can provide estimates on how expensive that will be.
I have read your first posts, and the prices back then were amazing. At €50 per sqm (about $54 per sq ft) we would not even consider it ;-) We currently hope that the price for us will not exceed €350 per sqm (about $373 per sq ft). The price is not fixed yet, and the last plots were around €320 per sqm (about $341 per sq ft).
The price for a detached, basement-equipped single-family house was very low as well. It’s hard to estimate now, of course, since you have to factor in inflation. But for your information:
Our current budget is €600,000 (about $640,000), with a 400-500 sqm (4,300-5,400 sq ft) plot, planning to build a two-story townhouse with 160-200 sqm (1,700-2,150 sq ft) on a slab foundation.
@Basti2709
Thanks for the list. That already helps a lot. I wouldn’t have thought the shell builder covers so much. I would have guessed more like:
- Civil engineering work, slab foundation
- Masonry, concrete and steel work, screed, façade
- Drywall installer
- Interior plastering
Thanks for all the info!I wrote 90% of homebuyers… not 100%. Of course, there are those who calculate reliably and it works out. But that is not the norm.
Regards, Steffen
PS: We used to think of €500,000 to €600,000 (about $540,000 to $640,000). Current status: €1.14 million (all in, including an expensive kitchen, expensive garden, expensive plot, etc.) and we still don’t live there 🙂
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