Hello! We are in the very early planning stage of our single-family house. Without adding specific connections and electrical planning details yet, we created a floor plan with doors and windows to roughly calculate all the areas. Below, I have listed some cost estimates for which I am quite uncertain and would appreciate some advice.
The plan is to build a single-family house in Brandenburg (near Berlin) with a built-up area of 11.7m * 10.37m (38.4 ft * 34 ft) including a basement with a waterproof concrete shell ("white tank"). The construction style is solid with a high-quality clinker brick facade (with a distinctive color rather than a standard red tone). In terms of energy measures, besides the solid two-shell construction with good insulation (e.g., mineral wool) and correspondingly insulated roof, basement/foundation slab, and windows, only a geothermal heat pump will be installed, which is very well suited for this region (constant year-round ground temperature above 10°C (50°F) from 25m (82 ft) depth). From a cost-benefit perspective, I am not very enthusiastic about photovoltaic or solar thermal systems. Also, we do not want a mechanical ventilation system or similar because we have found them all disturbingly noisy so far (including the one in our current rental apartment), at least I do; my fiancée is a bit less sensitive.
I would now like some feedback on how realistic these estimates are:
Deep drilling approximately 100 meters (328 ft) total = 3,900 EUR
Heat pump, e.g., geoTherm Plus with a seasonal performance factor above 4 = 7,000 EUR
Bamboo parquet approx. 190 m² (2,045 sq ft) = 5,700 EUR
Tiles (approx. 190 m²) including tiled walls and high-quality tiles in the entrance area = 7,600 EUR
Insulating material approx. 250 m² (2,691 sq ft) with 14 cm (5.5 in) thickness = 2,500 EUR
Facing bricks / clinker bricks approx. 250 m² = 7,500 EUR
Poroton perforated bricks + interior plaster approx. 250 m² = 12,500 EUR
Underfloor heating approx. 250 m² (including partial heating of basement rooms) = 12,500 EUR
Basement with waterproof concrete shell approx. 80 m² (861 sq ft) usable area = 60,000 EUR
Windows and doors, roughly 25 pieces = 8,750 EUR
Additional construction costs (utility connections to the street) excluding official fees and construction water/electricity = 15,000 EUR
Altogether, my calculation (which also includes furniture, energy consulting, and similar items) comes to just over 200,000 EUR in material costs. However, as I mentioned, I am still quite uncertain about some of the above estimates.
For labor costs (wages), I have assumed a maximum of 15 skilled workers over a construction period of up to 6 months (with a construction time guarantee) amounting to 180,000 EUR. Is this a realistic assumption? Are significantly more or fewer skilled workers usually involved?
How would you rate the Vaillant appliances?
Thank you in advance for any support!
The plan is to build a single-family house in Brandenburg (near Berlin) with a built-up area of 11.7m * 10.37m (38.4 ft * 34 ft) including a basement with a waterproof concrete shell ("white tank"). The construction style is solid with a high-quality clinker brick facade (with a distinctive color rather than a standard red tone). In terms of energy measures, besides the solid two-shell construction with good insulation (e.g., mineral wool) and correspondingly insulated roof, basement/foundation slab, and windows, only a geothermal heat pump will be installed, which is very well suited for this region (constant year-round ground temperature above 10°C (50°F) from 25m (82 ft) depth). From a cost-benefit perspective, I am not very enthusiastic about photovoltaic or solar thermal systems. Also, we do not want a mechanical ventilation system or similar because we have found them all disturbingly noisy so far (including the one in our current rental apartment), at least I do; my fiancée is a bit less sensitive.
I would now like some feedback on how realistic these estimates are:
Deep drilling approximately 100 meters (328 ft) total = 3,900 EUR
Heat pump, e.g., geoTherm Plus with a seasonal performance factor above 4 = 7,000 EUR
Bamboo parquet approx. 190 m² (2,045 sq ft) = 5,700 EUR
Tiles (approx. 190 m²) including tiled walls and high-quality tiles in the entrance area = 7,600 EUR
Insulating material approx. 250 m² (2,691 sq ft) with 14 cm (5.5 in) thickness = 2,500 EUR
Facing bricks / clinker bricks approx. 250 m² = 7,500 EUR
Poroton perforated bricks + interior plaster approx. 250 m² = 12,500 EUR
Underfloor heating approx. 250 m² (including partial heating of basement rooms) = 12,500 EUR
Basement with waterproof concrete shell approx. 80 m² (861 sq ft) usable area = 60,000 EUR
Windows and doors, roughly 25 pieces = 8,750 EUR
Additional construction costs (utility connections to the street) excluding official fees and construction water/electricity = 15,000 EUR
Altogether, my calculation (which also includes furniture, energy consulting, and similar items) comes to just over 200,000 EUR in material costs. However, as I mentioned, I am still quite uncertain about some of the above estimates.
For labor costs (wages), I have assumed a maximum of 15 skilled workers over a construction period of up to 6 months (with a construction time guarantee) amounting to 180,000 EUR. Is this a realistic assumption? Are significantly more or fewer skilled workers usually involved?
How would you rate the Vaillant appliances?
Thank you in advance for any support!
Did you receive a detailed list of individual prices for the trades?This is exactly my current problem. I have been given prices, but only total sums without specific costs for each trade. I could get those details, but I would first have to sign something and make a payment. I would just like to know beforehand what I am paying for.
Elsewhere, I recently read that, unlike a general contractor, an architect is not allowed to offer a fixed price. I don’t fully understand that yet. I approach the architect with my idea, they create a concrete plan. Would I receive a cost estimate at that point? Let’s say just a rough one, then they contract the trades and realize the costs are actually twice as high?! Of course, that wouldn’t be a good architect if they miscalculate like that, but the risk remains. I understand that you cannot fix all prices 100% upfront, but most of the costs should be known BEFORE signing any contract. I don’t want to end up paying double what I initially expected... Why can’t an architect offer fixed prices? They should present a reasonable cost calculation before construction begins.
P
perlenmann18 Jul 2012 10:26Yes, very good.
Being well informed is half the battle in building.
And you’re going to live on a plot where your children can climb a 10m (33 ft) high pile of earth? Surely some of it will be stored on-site (if suitable) for backfilling, but what about the rest? Are you talking exactly the volume of your basement?
If I worked in a job where everyone finds out the price through an online request, I wouldn’t have a house now!
Still, what does that help you? I believe many people who approach it like you forget that much of it is a mixed calculation, and secondly, the price also has to cover a warranty!
For me, it’s much more interesting what final price is quoted for everything, whether the electrical outlet costs 50 or 100 USD (or equivalent)... it’s about the total package!
If you quote me, why do you leave out “all”? Don’t you have all the costs as well?
Being well informed is half the battle in building.
And you’re going to live on a plot where your children can climb a 10m (33 ft) high pile of earth? Surely some of it will be stored on-site (if suitable) for backfilling, but what about the rest? Are you talking exactly the volume of your basement?
If I worked in a job where everyone finds out the price through an online request, I wouldn’t have a house now!
Still, what does that help you? I believe many people who approach it like you forget that much of it is a mixed calculation, and secondly, the price also has to cover a warranty!
For me, it’s much more interesting what final price is quoted for everything, whether the electrical outlet costs 50 or 100 USD (or equivalent)... it’s about the total package!
If you quote me, why do you leave out “all”? Don’t you have all the costs as well?
I left all of that out because, as with house construction, not all costs can be calculated in advance. But some can, for sure.
A different question, since we have come this far in the discussion. Let’s say a general contractor (GC) only constructs a shell home, and the rest is done together with an (interior) architect. How does that work with underfloor heating, for example? Pipes need to be installed for that. If the whole house already stands as a shell home, there must be plans beforehand showing where pipes should go, where windows should be, doors, etc. In that case, does a simple shell home actually make sense? I assume heating pipes have to be installed before the entire structure, including the roof, is completed, right?
A different question, since we have come this far in the discussion. Let’s say a general contractor (GC) only constructs a shell home, and the rest is done together with an (interior) architect. How does that work with underfloor heating, for example? Pipes need to be installed for that. If the whole house already stands as a shell home, there must be plans beforehand showing where pipes should go, where windows should be, doors, etc. In that case, does a simple shell home actually make sense? I assume heating pipes have to be installed before the entire structure, including the roof, is completed, right?
If I’m reading you right, you want as much planning certainty as possible, don’t you?
Have you considered a prefab house?
We wanted two things: as much planning certainty as possible and the shortest possible construction time.
We got that from our prefab house provider (timber frame construction). Before signing the contract, we negotiated in as many details as possible and gave ourselves a buffer of 10,000 euros for upgrades.
These mostly concern the interior finishes, such as bathrooms, number of sockets, and blinds. The standard offered by the house provider is “sufficiently good”—not the cheapest, but nothing flashy. All brand-name products.
So we can save money here if needed.
The biggest unknown was always the earthworks portion. That caught us off guard.
But so far, no surprises from the house company, and you find out relatively early what the house will cost you in the end.
From a planning perspective, almost anything is possible—just a matter of money. But even here, you get the exact price before giving up your cancellation rights.
Our house was priced at 190,000 euros for the basic version with 140 sq.m. (1,507 sq.ft.). Then we added a controlled mechanical ventilation system, a wood stove, and a bay window, bringing the total to 215,000 euros. This already includes all layout changes. This will be our complete house cost.
The only unknown still is the selection of finishes. We could spend quite a lot here if we want. But that’s entirely up to us.
Just as a suggestion: good timber prefab houses hardly differ from solid houses. Our provider installs solid wood panels behind the drywall, so you can hang any cabinet using a simple 3.5 cm (1.4 inch) Spax screw.
I think I can sell my drill.
Maybe you can take this as a little inspiration. I can share the name of our provider via private message if you want.
Have you considered a prefab house?
We wanted two things: as much planning certainty as possible and the shortest possible construction time.
We got that from our prefab house provider (timber frame construction). Before signing the contract, we negotiated in as many details as possible and gave ourselves a buffer of 10,000 euros for upgrades.
These mostly concern the interior finishes, such as bathrooms, number of sockets, and blinds. The standard offered by the house provider is “sufficiently good”—not the cheapest, but nothing flashy. All brand-name products.
So we can save money here if needed.
The biggest unknown was always the earthworks portion. That caught us off guard.
But so far, no surprises from the house company, and you find out relatively early what the house will cost you in the end.
From a planning perspective, almost anything is possible—just a matter of money. But even here, you get the exact price before giving up your cancellation rights.
Our house was priced at 190,000 euros for the basic version with 140 sq.m. (1,507 sq.ft.). Then we added a controlled mechanical ventilation system, a wood stove, and a bay window, bringing the total to 215,000 euros. This already includes all layout changes. This will be our complete house cost.
The only unknown still is the selection of finishes. We could spend quite a lot here if we want. But that’s entirely up to us.
Just as a suggestion: good timber prefab houses hardly differ from solid houses. Our provider installs solid wood panels behind the drywall, so you can hang any cabinet using a simple 3.5 cm (1.4 inch) Spax screw.
I think I can sell my drill.
Maybe you can take this as a little inspiration. I can share the name of our provider via private message if you want.
B
Bauexperte18 Jul 2012 11:40Hello Chris,
So about 200 sqm (2,153 sqft) of living space plus the basement with a waterproof shell. The base price for a detached house of this size should be around 350,000 euros (EUR 350k), plus the cost of the ground source heat pump, the land, personal extras, and additional construction-related costs of around 35,000 euros (EUR 35k) — only if the plot is actually uncomplicated; otherwise, consider roughly an extra 10,000 euros (EUR 10k).
You should discuss the ventilation topic again together with an energy consultant — excellent advice is available, for example, from the energy agencies of the federal states. Besides significantly increasing comfort, these systems primarily ensure long-term prevention of mold bacteria; if you both work full-time and therefore have no opportunity to ventilate three times a day by opening windows, there is no alternative. These devices do not generate noise if they are not cheap products and are installed and adjusted by a professional company. The costs typically range between 7,000 and 9,000 euros (EUR 7k–9k) including installation, depending on the provider.
A “shell house” is simply a closed building envelope: bricks plus the outer facing bricks, roof structure including covering, windows, and front door.
A building permit / planning permission application must also be submitted for a shell house, and part of that application includes drainage planning; without this, you will not get a permit. If you contract this part to a GC or building contractor, their responsibility ends at this point.
You then still need to coordinate the interior finishing, which requires detailed execution planning. This means you either have to conclude a suitable agreement with the previously mentioned GC/building contractor for providing these services or hire another architect to prepare this planning for you. In my opinion, the latter option is the smarter solution because this additional architect can also assist with tendering and subsequent cost control. However, be aware that this model effectively means paying twice for architectural services.
Kind regards
Chris82 schrieb:
A detached house is planned to be built in Brandenburg (near Berlin) with a built-up area of 11.7m*10.37m (38.4ft*34.0ft) including a basement with a waterproof concrete shell. The building style is solid construction with a high-quality clinker brick facade (with a distinctive color, not the usual standard red tone). Regarding energy measures, besides the solid two-shell construction with good insulation (e.g. mineral wool) and properly insulated roof, basement/foundation slab, and windows, only a ground source heat pump is planned, which is very well suited for this region (constant annual ground temperature >10°C (50°F) already from 25m (82ft) depth).
So about 200 sqm (2,153 sqft) of living space plus the basement with a waterproof shell. The base price for a detached house of this size should be around 350,000 euros (EUR 350k), plus the cost of the ground source heat pump, the land, personal extras, and additional construction-related costs of around 35,000 euros (EUR 35k) — only if the plot is actually uncomplicated; otherwise, consider roughly an extra 10,000 euros (EUR 10k).
Chris82 schrieb:
Also, we do not want a mechanical ventilation system or similar because we have found them all disturbing and noisy so far (including the ones in our current rental apartment), at least I do; my fiancée is not as sensitive.
You should discuss the ventilation topic again together with an energy consultant — excellent advice is available, for example, from the energy agencies of the federal states. Besides significantly increasing comfort, these systems primarily ensure long-term prevention of mold bacteria; if you both work full-time and therefore have no opportunity to ventilate three times a day by opening windows, there is no alternative. These devices do not generate noise if they are not cheap products and are installed and adjusted by a professional company. The costs typically range between 7,000 and 9,000 euros (EUR 7k–9k) including installation, depending on the provider.
Chris82 schrieb:
One more question, since our discussion has progressed this far. Let’s say you have a general contractor (GC) build just a shell house and complete the rest with an (interior) architect. How does that work with underfloor heating? Pipes must be laid for that. If the whole house is already standing as a shell house, there must be plans beforehand showing where pipes, windows, doors, etc. should go. So does a shell house even make sense? I assume that heating pipes have to be installed before the entire structure up to the roof is finished, right?
A “shell house” is simply a closed building envelope: bricks plus the outer facing bricks, roof structure including covering, windows, and front door.
A building permit / planning permission application must also be submitted for a shell house, and part of that application includes drainage planning; without this, you will not get a permit. If you contract this part to a GC or building contractor, their responsibility ends at this point.
You then still need to coordinate the interior finishing, which requires detailed execution planning. This means you either have to conclude a suitable agreement with the previously mentioned GC/building contractor for providing these services or hire another architect to prepare this planning for you. In my opinion, the latter option is the smarter solution because this additional architect can also assist with tendering and subsequent cost control. However, be aware that this model effectively means paying twice for architectural services.
Kind regards
So, a base price of 350,000 EUR is too high. For example, I have an offer for a turnkey house with 180 m² (1,940 sq ft) including a basement without a waterproof concrete shell for 260,000 EUR. Of course, additional costs will come up, but that still leaves a gap of 90,000 EUR. However, that’s not critical, since I will simply scale down the floor plan I sketched with Revit, and I already know where the space can be reduced. Thanks anyway for the cost estimate.
Regarding ventilation... yes, that is currently a major discussion topic for us. I have not yet come across a ventilation system that is truly silent, even in model homes (where I think they make a special effort to showcase their features). The argument about preventing mold is the most common. However, I should mention that my father has had a solid masonry house for over 20 years (outer wall thickness 36.5 cm (14 inches), exact composition unknown), and he does not ventilate nearly three times a day. Yet, mold inside or algae outside (the house is plastered) have so far not appeared. The heating consumption (I have no knowledge of the theoretical demand, but it is probably quite high) is just below the 2009 Energy Saving Ordinance level. Another point is that we were told that with a mechanical ventilation system, you should no longer open the windows for ventilation, or at least not regularly, and we definitely do not want that. In our current apartment, for instance, we turn off the heating completely in summer and keep some windows tilted open. Sure, energy is lost with tilted windows, but a turned-off heating system consumes very little. As you correctly said, we will get professional advice from an energy consultant once again.
Thank you for explaining what a shell construction is. I thought doors and windows were missing as well, meaning it is just a brick shell. One option that I think I would like (though the cost is of course uncertain) would be planning by the architect, construction by a general contractor (so you don’t have to deal with numerous individual tradespeople, but just one construction company), and supervision by the architect. However, as far as I have seen, the tendering of individual trades is a relatively small item in the official fee structure (HOAI), so this variant might be too expensive.
Regarding ventilation... yes, that is currently a major discussion topic for us. I have not yet come across a ventilation system that is truly silent, even in model homes (where I think they make a special effort to showcase their features). The argument about preventing mold is the most common. However, I should mention that my father has had a solid masonry house for over 20 years (outer wall thickness 36.5 cm (14 inches), exact composition unknown), and he does not ventilate nearly three times a day. Yet, mold inside or algae outside (the house is plastered) have so far not appeared. The heating consumption (I have no knowledge of the theoretical demand, but it is probably quite high) is just below the 2009 Energy Saving Ordinance level. Another point is that we were told that with a mechanical ventilation system, you should no longer open the windows for ventilation, or at least not regularly, and we definitely do not want that. In our current apartment, for instance, we turn off the heating completely in summer and keep some windows tilted open. Sure, energy is lost with tilted windows, but a turned-off heating system consumes very little. As you correctly said, we will get professional advice from an energy consultant once again.
Thank you for explaining what a shell construction is. I thought doors and windows were missing as well, meaning it is just a brick shell. One option that I think I would like (though the cost is of course uncertain) would be planning by the architect, construction by a general contractor (so you don’t have to deal with numerous individual tradespeople, but just one construction company), and supervision by the architect. However, as far as I have seen, the tendering of individual trades is a relatively small item in the official fee structure (HOAI), so this variant might be too expensive.
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