Hello, dear forum members,
I have purchased my first own apartment, which is currently under construction, so I have little experience and would be very grateful for your help.
A basic package has been agreed upon with the developer. Custom requests come with additional costs. The extra charges now quoted in the offers seem extremely overpriced to me.
It mainly concerns the wall tiles. The basic format is 30x60cm (12x24 inches). According to the construction description, 75€/m² (7.0 USD/ft²) gross has already been calculated for the tiles themselves, including installation, and is included in the purchase price. I want different tiles.
On top of all prices, there are additional surcharges for custom requests: installation of porcelain stoneware tiles on the wall 10€/m² (0.93 USD/ft²) gross, as well as installation of rectified (square-edged) tiles for 12€/m² (1.12 USD/ft²).
Added together, the extra gross prices on top of the basic are
- for format 60x120cm (24x48 inches) +70€ (about 76 USD),
- for format 120x120cm (48x48 inches) +135€ (around 147 USD),
- for format 20x120cm (8x48 inches) +123€ (about 134 USD) (Italgraniti LUX Listello Mix Pietra, in 5 different surface patterns but same size, installed in a random pattern).
For inserting a thin decorative metal border 0.3x120cm (not included in the basic package) between the 20x120cm tiles, 82€/linear meter (25 USD/linear foot) gross is charged.
Also, for the tiles themselves, the tiler charges significantly more than I could get at the same building materials supplier myself.
It is similar with other items from my developer. For example, if I want a different shower or faucet, the plumbing installer demands an additional charge roughly equal to the retail price of the item. Identical items can be found at hardware stores or online retailers for 50-60% less. However, I am not allowed to buy there, as the responsible specialist company will not install items they did not supply "due to warranty reasons."
Has anyone had similar experiences?
What are “normal” prices for rectified porcelain stoneware wall tiles in formats 20x120cm (8x48 inches), 60x120cm (24x48 inches), 120x120cm (48x48 inches), 120x240cm (48x96 inches)?
If the specialist company responsible for certain installations (e.g., shower) is willing to install, am I required to buy from that company only? Since they source themselves through suppliers, is it allowed for the company to refuse installation of identical items that I procured myself?
Best regards from Bavaria!
alex81k
I have purchased my first own apartment, which is currently under construction, so I have little experience and would be very grateful for your help.
A basic package has been agreed upon with the developer. Custom requests come with additional costs. The extra charges now quoted in the offers seem extremely overpriced to me.
It mainly concerns the wall tiles. The basic format is 30x60cm (12x24 inches). According to the construction description, 75€/m² (7.0 USD/ft²) gross has already been calculated for the tiles themselves, including installation, and is included in the purchase price. I want different tiles.
On top of all prices, there are additional surcharges for custom requests: installation of porcelain stoneware tiles on the wall 10€/m² (0.93 USD/ft²) gross, as well as installation of rectified (square-edged) tiles for 12€/m² (1.12 USD/ft²).
Added together, the extra gross prices on top of the basic are
- for format 60x120cm (24x48 inches) +70€ (about 76 USD),
- for format 120x120cm (48x48 inches) +135€ (around 147 USD),
- for format 20x120cm (8x48 inches) +123€ (about 134 USD) (Italgraniti LUX Listello Mix Pietra, in 5 different surface patterns but same size, installed in a random pattern).
For inserting a thin decorative metal border 0.3x120cm (not included in the basic package) between the 20x120cm tiles, 82€/linear meter (25 USD/linear foot) gross is charged.
Also, for the tiles themselves, the tiler charges significantly more than I could get at the same building materials supplier myself.
It is similar with other items from my developer. For example, if I want a different shower or faucet, the plumbing installer demands an additional charge roughly equal to the retail price of the item. Identical items can be found at hardware stores or online retailers for 50-60% less. However, I am not allowed to buy there, as the responsible specialist company will not install items they did not supply "due to warranty reasons."
Has anyone had similar experiences?
What are “normal” prices for rectified porcelain stoneware wall tiles in formats 20x120cm (8x48 inches), 60x120cm (24x48 inches), 120x120cm (48x48 inches), 120x240cm (48x96 inches)?
If the specialist company responsible for certain installations (e.g., shower) is willing to install, am I required to buy from that company only? Since they source themselves through suppliers, is it allowed for the company to refuse installation of identical items that I procured myself?
Best regards from Bavaria!
alex81k
Hello,
In general, tile installers or plumbing companies do not want to install items sourced externally, as these were not procured through them and they therefore do not want to assume any liability. This is intended to prevent or at least make it difficult for the homeowner to outsource these items independently and then have them installed through the tile installer or plumber contracted by the builder, based on my experience over the last 10 months.
I had the tile work separated from the contract and took care of finding a tile installer myself. By chance, it was the same tile installer who works for the builder—pure coincidence. He quoted the following prices:
Wall tile 120x120 cm (47x47 inches): €62 per m² (per sq ft)
Wall tile 80x80 cm (31x31 inches): €57.12 per m² (per sq ft)
Floor tile 120x120 cm (47x47 inches): €50 per m² (per sq ft)
Floor tile 80x80 cm (31x31 inches): €45 per m² (per sq ft)
I only partially excluded the plumbing work, but the plumber refuses to install certain items such as the shower, bathtub, washbasin, water softener system, etc. This is not a problem in principle. However, I am not obliged to pay him, for example, €2600 for the same water softener system that can be purchased elsewhere for under €2000.
In your case, if you consider the prices too high, I would recommend excluding both trades from the main contract.
In general, tile installers or plumbing companies do not want to install items sourced externally, as these were not procured through them and they therefore do not want to assume any liability. This is intended to prevent or at least make it difficult for the homeowner to outsource these items independently and then have them installed through the tile installer or plumber contracted by the builder, based on my experience over the last 10 months.
I had the tile work separated from the contract and took care of finding a tile installer myself. By chance, it was the same tile installer who works for the builder—pure coincidence. He quoted the following prices:
Wall tile 120x120 cm (47x47 inches): €62 per m² (per sq ft)
Wall tile 80x80 cm (31x31 inches): €57.12 per m² (per sq ft)
Floor tile 120x120 cm (47x47 inches): €50 per m² (per sq ft)
Floor tile 80x80 cm (31x31 inches): €45 per m² (per sq ft)
I only partially excluded the plumbing work, but the plumber refuses to install certain items such as the shower, bathtub, washbasin, water softener system, etc. This is not a problem in principle. However, I am not obliged to pay him, for example, €2600 for the same water softener system that can be purchased elsewhere for under €2000.
In your case, if you consider the prices too high, I would recommend excluding both trades from the main contract.
S
Schneckham4 Oct 2021 12:58It works similarly for us.
The tile price is given as the recommended retail price (RRP), and we pay extra for anything above that. The same applies to laying special shapes.
For example, the additional cost for upgrading from 60cm x 30cm (24 inches x 12 inches) tiles to 60cm x 60cm (24 inches x 24 inches) is 22 euros per square meter (22 euros per square yard) net.
When sourcing sanitary fixtures, there is also a certain margin included. For instance, the plumber buys at about 30% below RRP and keeps the profit. I can understand if they don’t want to install items you’ve sourced yourself.
Imagine they install a shower tray that you provided.
If it cracks after a few weeks, then the trouble starts. Is it a material defect? An installation error? And so on. The fitter then has considerable effort and explanations to provide for something they didn’t earn a cent from.
Maybe you could offer not to hold them responsible for defects in the parts you bought. However, this would be a disadvantage for you if something actually happens.
The tile price is given as the recommended retail price (RRP), and we pay extra for anything above that. The same applies to laying special shapes.
For example, the additional cost for upgrading from 60cm x 30cm (24 inches x 12 inches) tiles to 60cm x 60cm (24 inches x 24 inches) is 22 euros per square meter (22 euros per square yard) net.
When sourcing sanitary fixtures, there is also a certain margin included. For instance, the plumber buys at about 30% below RRP and keeps the profit. I can understand if they don’t want to install items you’ve sourced yourself.
Imagine they install a shower tray that you provided.
If it cracks after a few weeks, then the trouble starts. Is it a material defect? An installation error? And so on. The fitter then has considerable effort and explanations to provide for something they didn’t earn a cent from.
Maybe you could offer not to hold them responsible for defects in the parts you bought. However, this would be a disadvantage for you if something actually happens.
Schneckham schrieb:
It’s similar for us.
The tile price is given as the recommended retail price (RRP), and we pay extra for anything above that.
The same applies for installing special shapes.
For us, the surcharge from 60*30 to 60*60, for example, is 22 euros per square meter (22 euros per sq ft) net.
When it comes to procuring sanitary fixtures, there is also a certain margin involved. The plumber, for instance, buys at about 30% below the RRP and keeps the profit. I can understand if he doesn’t want to install parts that you have supplied yourself.
Imagine he installs a shower tray that you provided.
After a few weeks, it develops a crack and then the problems start. Is it a material defect? Installation error? Etc. The installer then faces a lot of effort and explanations for something he didn’t earn a penny on.
Maybe you can offer him that you won’t hold him liable for defects on the items you purchased. But that is a disadvantage for you if something really happens. I had offered the plumber the same, to release him from liability and even pay him to install everything for me, but he is refusing and argues that it would only cause trouble afterwards, even though I release him from liability. On construction sites, I often deal with people who don’t really understand what liability actually means.
alex81k schrieb:
I bought my first own apartment, which is currently being built, [...]
The main topic is the wall tiles. The base format is 30x60.For you, your apartment might be an emotional thing, but a developer constructs them in huge quantities at a high pace. Your wish for larger tiles involves a chain of requirements regarding the flatness and quality of the substrate, and so on, which are hard for non-experts to imagine. Better stick with the still not insignificant 30x60 and for heaven’s sake don’t even remove them from the developer’s sample range. By insisting on perfection here, you’ll only cause disputes over defects and botched work, which you’ll bitterly regret trying to push to 100%. Don’t misunderstand the common saying that the first condominium is bought for an enemy as a guiding principle!alex81k schrieb:
If the specialist company responsible for, for example, plumbing, is ready to install certain fixtures (for example, the shower), am I forced to buy only from that company? They themselves source through R+F. Is the specialist company allowed to refuse the installation of identical fixtures that I have sourced myself?RE-1407 schrieb:
I also offered the plumber that I would release him from liability and even pay him to install everything, but he refuses stubbornly, arguing that it would only cause trouble afterwards, even though I exonerate him from liability... but on construction sites, I also deal with people who don’t really understand what liability actually means.The warranty issue with the “upcoming trades” is indeed a serious one. How far a commercial understanding of waiving liability risks aligns with warranty law under the Construction Code and the VOB (German construction contract procedures) is something I wouldn’t want to depend on the judge’s mood on that day. In this regard, I can understand the craftsman.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
S
Sparfuchs774 Oct 2021 13:24alex81k schrieb:
For size 60x120 cm (24x48 inches) + €70,
- for size 120x120 cm (48x48 inches) + €135
- for size 20x120 cm (8x48 inches) + €123 Do you mean these prices are additional to the already included costs, and also charged per square meter?
RE-1407 schrieb:
They wanted the following:
Wall tile 120x120 cm (48x48 inches): €62/sqm (per square meter)
Wall tile 80x80 cm (32x32 inches): €57.12/sqm
Floor tile 120x120 cm (48x48 inches): €50/sqm
Floor tile 80x80 cm (32x32 inches): €45/sqm Are these material costs for the tiles or only for installation?
11ant schrieb:
"Limit" yourself to the not exactly cheap 30x60 cm (12x24 inches) tiles and for heaven’s sake don’t choose them from the builder’s standard sample palette. I have 30x60 cm (12x24 inches) tiles in the utility room and I’m very glad I didn’t choose them for the rest of the house. Tastes really vary that much 😉 In my opinion, this has nothing to do with being “modest.” But as the client, I also have to accept the consequences.
- Either pay the extra cost (even if overpriced)
- Or exclude the trade and contract it out to someone else
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