Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size 537 sqm (5780 sq ft)
Slope no
Site coverage ratio 0.35
Floor area ratio
Building area, building line and boundary 14.42/15.00 × 13.52/17.56 meters (47.3/49.2 × 44.4/57.6 feet)
Edge development Garages are allowed within the side setback areas
Number of parking spaces 3
Number of floors 2
Roof type gable roof
Architectural style modern, simple
Orientation south
Maximum height/limits ridge height 10.5 m (34.4 ft)
Clients’ Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type 2 full floors, classic gable roof
Floors 2
Number of occupants 2 adults over 40 + 2 children (3 and 16), separate apartment: 1 person under 70
Ground floor room requirements: living/dining + L-shaped kitchen, guest toilet, utility/technical room
Upper floor: 3 bedrooms, 2 offices, 2 bathrooms, laundry room
Separate apartment 3 rooms: living/dining, kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, small guest room
Office: 2 home offices
Overnight guests per year: separate apartment 10 times
Open or closed architecture
Conservative or modern design
Open kitchen with island: semi-open, not directly visible from living area
Number of dining seats 6
Fireplace no
Music/soundproof wall no
Balcony, roof terrace
Garage, carport at least 1, preferably 2
Utility garden, greenhouse desired
Additional wishes/special features/daily routine separate terraces; both want sunlight
House Design
Designer: Architect
What is particularly liked? The bright kitchen in the separate apartment
What is disliked? Long narrow hallway, living/dining area in the main residence
Estimated cost according to architect/planner: 650
Personal price limit for the house, including fixtures: 700
Preferred heating technology: heat pump
If you have to give up something, which details/extensions
- can be foregone: the second garage
Hello everyone,
After reading a lot here and planning for three months now, I’m trying to get some help.
The plot is complicated, maybe a bit narrow to also fit a separate apartment on the ground floor.
We are unsure how to “split” the plot.
Who should get the west or east side?
Which street should the house face?
The 5.5 m (18 ft) setback area on the north side suggests itself as the driveway/parking area. Also, no one wants a north-facing garden.
We all want sunlight somehow, but with further construction progress on other houses (marked in red) and the low sun angle, hardly any sun reaches the southern area.
The separate apartment really only needs a sunny terrace (because mowing the lawn will get harder with age).
I’ve simply added the architect’s two drafts here.
Plot size 537 sqm (5780 sq ft)
Slope no
Site coverage ratio 0.35
Floor area ratio
Building area, building line and boundary 14.42/15.00 × 13.52/17.56 meters (47.3/49.2 × 44.4/57.6 feet)
Edge development Garages are allowed within the side setback areas
Number of parking spaces 3
Number of floors 2
Roof type gable roof
Architectural style modern, simple
Orientation south
Maximum height/limits ridge height 10.5 m (34.4 ft)
Clients’ Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type 2 full floors, classic gable roof
Floors 2
Number of occupants 2 adults over 40 + 2 children (3 and 16), separate apartment: 1 person under 70
Ground floor room requirements: living/dining + L-shaped kitchen, guest toilet, utility/technical room
Upper floor: 3 bedrooms, 2 offices, 2 bathrooms, laundry room
Separate apartment 3 rooms: living/dining, kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, small guest room
Office: 2 home offices
Overnight guests per year: separate apartment 10 times
Open or closed architecture
Conservative or modern design
Open kitchen with island: semi-open, not directly visible from living area
Number of dining seats 6
Fireplace no
Music/soundproof wall no
Balcony, roof terrace
Garage, carport at least 1, preferably 2
Utility garden, greenhouse desired
Additional wishes/special features/daily routine separate terraces; both want sunlight
House Design
Designer: Architect
What is particularly liked? The bright kitchen in the separate apartment
What is disliked? Long narrow hallway, living/dining area in the main residence
Estimated cost according to architect/planner: 650
Personal price limit for the house, including fixtures: 700
Preferred heating technology: heat pump
If you have to give up something, which details/extensions
- can be foregone: the second garage
Hello everyone,
After reading a lot here and planning for three months now, I’m trying to get some help.
The plot is complicated, maybe a bit narrow to also fit a separate apartment on the ground floor.
We are unsure how to “split” the plot.
Who should get the west or east side?
Which street should the house face?
The 5.5 m (18 ft) setback area on the north side suggests itself as the driveway/parking area. Also, no one wants a north-facing garden.
We all want sunlight somehow, but with further construction progress on other houses (marked in red) and the low sun angle, hardly any sun reaches the southern area.
The separate apartment really only needs a sunny terrace (because mowing the lawn will get harder with age).
I’ve simply added the architect’s two drafts here.
I have looked at your post with the patient pencil sketch (no offense to pencil or colored pencil drawings – I love them) and I really encounter my, your, our limits here.
But you contradict yourself completely: sometimes it’s the west side you want, then the east side. Then west is a narrow strip, then you absolutely want to go there. Here you even say yourself it’s all rather awkward, garage and storage on exactly the wrong side. Logic is close to envy.
With all these considerations, I personally do not at all come to 12 x 11.5 m (39 x 38 feet) and this kind of layout.
If I roughly follow the sketch with proper exterior walls, I arrive at a ground floor that doesn’t make it worthwhile to even consider an upper floor.
The kitchen in the main apartment is tolerable, but what about the living area? In other plans, you criticized either a hallway that’s too long or one that’s too short, and a kitchen that’s more optimal or too open.
Your mother will complain about car door noises next to her bedroom window but at least she can look into your garden. A south-facing window in the kitchen should definitely be a MUST, right? The guest room is barely 2.2 m (7 feet) wide.
I dug up a draft from last week again:
The views roughly correspond to what was posted before. Due to the stair location, the upper floor is easier to furnish.
The garden shed is at the entrance to the granny flat, you could make a garage on the edge parking space. The utility room/bathroom situation is not fully developed.
Hausmma schrieb:
Yes, then the granny flat gets the nice east side with southern sun, and the main apartment has a narrow, divided garden.
But the main apartment shouldn’t shift too far to the west street side, otherwise there’s no privacy left.
So we don’t forget the desired garage (actually there were supposed to be two).
It simply only fits on the east side. You can’t really get a proper driveway on the west corner.
The granny flat needs a bike/storage room which could then be placed in the corner (which is a bit strange, we would always have to access the vehicles on the other side of the house – but okay).
Hausmma schrieb:First, to clarify: there is usually no single optimum… many or few compromises lead to different results.
So I keep coming back to a rectangle with a max width of 12 m (39 feet) and length of 11.5 m (38 feet).
But you contradict yourself completely: sometimes it’s the west side you want, then the east side. Then west is a narrow strip, then you absolutely want to go there. Here you even say yourself it’s all rather awkward, garage and storage on exactly the wrong side. Logic is close to envy.
With all these considerations, I personally do not at all come to 12 x 11.5 m (39 x 38 feet) and this kind of layout.
Hausmma schrieb:
What do you think?
If I roughly follow the sketch with proper exterior walls, I arrive at a ground floor that doesn’t make it worthwhile to even consider an upper floor.
The kitchen in the main apartment is tolerable, but what about the living area? In other plans, you criticized either a hallway that’s too long or one that’s too short, and a kitchen that’s more optimal or too open.
Your mother will complain about car door noises next to her bedroom window but at least she can look into your garden. A south-facing window in the kitchen should definitely be a MUST, right? The guest room is barely 2.2 m (7 feet) wide.
I dug up a draft from last week again:
The views roughly correspond to what was posted before. Due to the stair location, the upper floor is easier to furnish.
The garden shed is at the entrance to the granny flat, you could make a garage on the edge parking space. The utility room/bathroom situation is not fully developed.
I forgot:
There is no point in trying to turn the granny flat into a rentable apartment with a full bedroom, on top of meeting Mom’s wishes. If you do that, the parking and driveway situation also needs to be sorted out. Changing places in the driveway twice a day is something nobody wants to deal with when sharing the space with a tenant or two. Additionally, on the north side there are no walkways between the house and the parking spaces, so someone would always have to pass by the other’s bathroom or bedroom window.
There is no point in trying to turn the granny flat into a rentable apartment with a full bedroom, on top of meeting Mom’s wishes. If you do that, the parking and driveway situation also needs to be sorted out. Changing places in the driveway twice a day is something nobody wants to deal with when sharing the space with a tenant or two. Additionally, on the north side there are no walkways between the house and the parking spaces, so someone would always have to pass by the other’s bathroom or bedroom window.
ypg schrieb:
Will we get another update from you here @Hausmma?Thanks for asking.Well, what can I say... we’re not any wiser. Whether the east or west side will be chosen is still undecided.
This week I met with the architect again. It will be tight to have a new design ready this year.
Afterwards, my mother said she would actually prefer a completely different floor plan for the apartment. More like a long, narrow layout with an open kitchen and an island. Now I’m completely at a loss.
It really has to be emphasized: she absolutely cannot visualize such plans spatially.
And her expectations are quite high with little willingness to compromise.
Well, this is probably the wrong forum for psychology.
In fact, we are also considering not proceeding with this after all.
That would be a pity. There isn’t another plot available here.
ypg schrieb:
I dug out a design from last week againDefinitely the best one, but the 3-meter (10 feet) setback from the street is too little. A 3-meter (10 feet) garden is already quite small—and if a 1-meter (3 feet) wide hedge has to be planted there (according to zoning regulations), only 2 meters (6 feet) remain.Therefore, we are still leaning towards aligning the house straight.
I also briefly considered whether this could be designed as two semi-detached houses.
But if you have any other ideas, feel free to share them.
Hausmma schrieb:
Well, her expectations are quite high and she’s not really willing to compromise.
Well, this is probably the wrong forum for psychology. Not necessarily the wrong forum, since there might be others here who have experience with this.
On one hand, I think it’s good that her mother-in-law has her fixed, whatever they may be, ideas. At the same time, it is just as important that it works for Ruch. That obviously doesn’t seem to be the case, and I would fear that compromises made by both sides (perhaps half-hearted) are likely to resurface later and lead to much bigger problems when things can no longer be reversed.
I lived with my parents in my house for many years without any problems, but they were rather undemanding, so you ended up “forcing” them to nice things. In your case here, I would actually look for separate options but would advise against pursuing this solution with a forced expectation of success. There are so many examples of sad dramas like this, and given the history here, the risk for both sides would be too high.
Hausmma schrieb:
It really needs to be emphasized again, she absolutely cannot visualize such plans spatially. That’s not a big problem, but then she should be able to trust that her needs will be properly considered—or not—and if not, it’s better for her to just stay out of it.
Hausmma schrieb:
That would be a shame. It would be a shame, yes, but a built family drama would be another matter entirely.
Arauki11 schrieb:
Not necessarily the wrong forum, since there might be others here with experience in this.
On one hand, I think it’s good that my mother-in-law has her own clear, whatever kind, ideas. Thanks, yes, I’ve already read a lot here... and I certainly wouldn’t put “my” mother in a 35 sqm (375 sq ft) apartment without natural light.
Arauki11 schrieb:
I lived together with my parents for many years in my house without any problems. We have done that too—and otherwise, we are used to having some relative living right with us. So I don’t see that as a problem.
It would really be a shame if we build on our own—and then she would say: Oh, if only I had…
And because I like the idea so much:
If she doesn’t want to join in, we will still build with a granny flat—maybe a little smaller.
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