ᐅ Turning Loose Fill into a Stabilized Fill Using Wallpaper Adhesive?
Created on: 25 Feb 2020 13:40
P
Phil333
Yay,
it is generally known that bonded fill is made with additives to make it solid.
There is a price difference compared to loose fill.
Wallpaper paste costs almost nothing.
Basically, it’s quite easy to make. What do you think?
Good luck, Phil333
it is generally known that bonded fill is made with additives to make it solid.
There is a price difference compared to loose fill.
Wallpaper paste costs almost nothing.
Basically, it’s quite easy to make. What do you think?
Good luck, Phil333
N
nordanney25 Feb 2020 16:55Phil333 schrieb:
Unfortunately, I have to cover a very large area with it The effort alone isn’t worth it. How do you plan to achieve a homogeneous mass by the cubic meter? And within what timeframe? Won’t the material mold from underneath? And so on.
I need to apply a layer of about 3-5 cm (1-2 inches) over an area of 220 m² (2,368 ft²), which means around 10,000 liters (2,640 gallons). Unfortunately, only 3 cm (1 inch) EPS insulation will be installed on top of this. Later, grooves will even be cut into the EPS for heating pipes (dry screed system). Then heat conduction plates will be added, followed by the pipes and finally Fermacell boards.
For all these work steps, the substrate must not be compacted or deformed. Therefore, I need a stable base layer that doesn’t crumble, shift, or dent when walked on. I have to mix bound fill anyway, so my idea was to try a simple cheap loose fill and be a bit innovative.
Wallpaper adhesive, when hard, holds extremely well! Maybe the industry uses the same substance as wallpaper adhesive but just calls it something like X23SP7 special adhesive. It’s not just about saving money, but also about experimenting a bit and being happy with the same result.
Bound fill: €27 for 80 liters (2.8 cu ft) per 125 bags = €3,375
Loose fill: €13 for 100 liters (3.5 cu ft) per 100 bags = €1,300
That’s a €2,075 difference—what’s it actually worth?
I’ve already found wallpaper paste for €3/kg (1 lb). Bound fill is also optionally cement-bound and has to be mixed in a bucket anyway. Instead of adding cement or tile adhesive, I’d like to try using wallpaper paste. Once this stuff sets, it should be solid and reliable.
I’ll simply create a test patch and see what results it brings. Of course, I will only add enough adhesive so that the pores of the fill granulate remain open for drying.
For all these work steps, the substrate must not be compacted or deformed. Therefore, I need a stable base layer that doesn’t crumble, shift, or dent when walked on. I have to mix bound fill anyway, so my idea was to try a simple cheap loose fill and be a bit innovative.
Wallpaper adhesive, when hard, holds extremely well! Maybe the industry uses the same substance as wallpaper adhesive but just calls it something like X23SP7 special adhesive. It’s not just about saving money, but also about experimenting a bit and being happy with the same result.
Bound fill: €27 for 80 liters (2.8 cu ft) per 125 bags = €3,375
Loose fill: €13 for 100 liters (3.5 cu ft) per 100 bags = €1,300
That’s a €2,075 difference—what’s it actually worth?
I’ve already found wallpaper paste for €3/kg (1 lb). Bound fill is also optionally cement-bound and has to be mixed in a bucket anyway. Instead of adding cement or tile adhesive, I’d like to try using wallpaper paste. Once this stuff sets, it should be solid and reliable.
I’ll simply create a test patch and see what results it brings. Of course, I will only add enough adhesive so that the pores of the fill granulate remain open for drying.
Phil333 schrieb:
or I might as well delete my account here right away.Not the worst idea.K
knalltüte25 Feb 2020 18:56[QUOTE="...
I'll just create a test area, and then the results will reveal themselves.
....
[/QUOTE]
You might want to consider that you will NEVER be able to access that area again without completely destroying the floor structure. The effort required for repairs will be significantly higher than the current "small" cost difference of 2000 euros. Unfortunately, I have experience with materials that turned out to be unsuitable in the long term (a 250-year-old house with lots of "patchwork" in walls, floors, and roof). Chemical processes that may only start later (years later?) ... just something to think about whether the risk is worth it. The construction industry does this not only for profit but possibly because it has proven reliable?
Best regards,
zapp
I'll just create a test area, and then the results will reveal themselves.
....
[/QUOTE]
You might want to consider that you will NEVER be able to access that area again without completely destroying the floor structure. The effort required for repairs will be significantly higher than the current "small" cost difference of 2000 euros. Unfortunately, I have experience with materials that turned out to be unsuitable in the long term (a 250-year-old house with lots of "patchwork" in walls, floors, and roof). Chemical processes that may only start later (years later?) ... just something to think about whether the risk is worth it. The construction industry does this not only for profit but possibly because it has proven reliable?
Best regards,
zapp
…and if the previously "dried & cured" mixture (whether the original industrial mix or a replicated mix) eventually breaks down and crumbles 10,000 times in the ground, which most likely will never happen, then we basically end up again with the same result = "wonderful loose fill just as originally planned." It can only transform from one good finished state to another good one.
Once the floor is sealed and complete, who cares anymore whether it is bonded or loose?
When the Fermacell boards are installed and then the tiles, it’s like a heavy marble coffin lid.
Then everything is settled, no matter what happens!
I can already hear the skeptics: For heaven’s sake, are you crazy? The granulate will eventually start talking, singing, or squeaking.
But look, aren’t we all looking for some special value or advantage during the construction phase, even just by registering here in the forum?
If I say I will transfer the saved amount of €2,075.00 to the members of this thread, it is exactly these cool jokers who immediately post their IBAN.
How many worthless and fruitless comments has the forum accumulated over the years from those people who basically only deliver elitist, substance-free opinions and catchphrases, but are practically childish system followers who never leave the open birdcage to learn or experience “more” and to SHARE it, thus hardly or not at all conveying “innovative” expert knowledge along with experience.
The chirping of these birds in the cage is worthless and useless to me.
For just as the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of fools; this too is vanity.
As the saying goes, you “fail” forward.
A very heartfelt thanks to everyone who supports constructively, where constructive also allows criticism, that is certainly true and something I stand by.
Once the floor is sealed and complete, who cares anymore whether it is bonded or loose?
When the Fermacell boards are installed and then the tiles, it’s like a heavy marble coffin lid.
Then everything is settled, no matter what happens!
I can already hear the skeptics: For heaven’s sake, are you crazy? The granulate will eventually start talking, singing, or squeaking.
But look, aren’t we all looking for some special value or advantage during the construction phase, even just by registering here in the forum?
If I say I will transfer the saved amount of €2,075.00 to the members of this thread, it is exactly these cool jokers who immediately post their IBAN.
How many worthless and fruitless comments has the forum accumulated over the years from those people who basically only deliver elitist, substance-free opinions and catchphrases, but are practically childish system followers who never leave the open birdcage to learn or experience “more” and to SHARE it, thus hardly or not at all conveying “innovative” expert knowledge along with experience.
The chirping of these birds in the cage is worthless and useless to me.
For just as the crackling of thorns under the pot, so is the laughter of fools; this too is vanity.
As the saying goes, you “fail” forward.
A very heartfelt thanks to everyone who supports constructively, where constructive also allows criticism, that is certainly true and something I stand by.
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