ᐅ Construction Project – Ventilation System, Heating – Your Experiences?
Created on: 16 Dec 2019 19:17
N
Nicon1001
Hello everyone,
After researching prefab houses in this forum over two years ago and coming across several posts that introduced me to the option of a solid (masonry) house, we have now decided to build such a solid house. We purchased the corresponding plot in Rhineland-Palatinate this month. We have successfully completed the first meeting with the architect (who was recommended to us by several friends). The meeting was very pleasant, and we were able to present our ideas. The next step is for him to create an initial design, which we will then review to see if it meets our preferences and to discuss any changes we want.
Since I have spent a lot of time in the last two years reading forums and many construction websites, I have come across many opinions and have already asked the architect for his thoughts on some issues. I want to pose these questions to you as well to get some additional feedback specific to my case. By the way, the building project will be a one-and-a-half-story single-family house with a pitched roof and 145-150 sqm (1560-1615 sq ft) of living space, without a basement.
1. We would like to have a central ventilation system. He advises against it due to the high costs (apparently around 18,000 - 20,000) and recommends the traditional use of windows. Is this cost range of 18,000 - 20,000 realistic? I had read something about around 12,000.
2. Regarding the heating system... we would like 3-4 sqm (32-43 sq ft) of solar thermal collectors for domestic hot water. Personally, I would probably have chosen a gas condensing boiler for the underfloor heating. He recommends an air-source heat pump. I have read that these can consume a lot of electricity, plus I wouldn’t be thrilled about even a slight humming noise outside. I’m probably not too satisfied with the gas condensing boiler either. The ground here is heavily rocky (slate mountain range). He considers any drilling into the ground risky due to possible rapidly increasing costs. He also doesn’t favor horizontal ground loop collectors, because they might cause problems with plant roots. Somehow it feels like everything has its downsides. What heating types do you have? What were the costs, and how satisfied are you? How are the running costs?
3. We love the clinker brick look. We would like to cover the entire façade with genuine clinker bricks. He advised us to preferably involve companies from North Rhine-Westphalia or Northern Germany, where it is common and they have expertise. I agree with that. What is the current cost per sqm for clinker bricks? Has anyone recently had this done? How long did it take? Clinker slips (thin facing bricks) are not an option for us.
4. If possible, we want to aim for KfW 55 standard (energy-efficient building standard). With the ventilation system and solar thermal, I think we are pretty well set in that direction. Then there is of course the question of the building material. He recommends monolithic Poroton blocks. But one could also use presumably cheaper pumice blocks if it really is a clinker brick masonry. Would pumice plus clinker be sufficient for KfW 55? External thermal insulation composite systems (ETICS, known as WDVS in German) are not planned. What is the price difference between Poroton and pumice?
If you have any questions, I will gladly try to answer them.
Thanks in advance, and please don’t be too harsh on me.
After researching prefab houses in this forum over two years ago and coming across several posts that introduced me to the option of a solid (masonry) house, we have now decided to build such a solid house. We purchased the corresponding plot in Rhineland-Palatinate this month. We have successfully completed the first meeting with the architect (who was recommended to us by several friends). The meeting was very pleasant, and we were able to present our ideas. The next step is for him to create an initial design, which we will then review to see if it meets our preferences and to discuss any changes we want.
Since I have spent a lot of time in the last two years reading forums and many construction websites, I have come across many opinions and have already asked the architect for his thoughts on some issues. I want to pose these questions to you as well to get some additional feedback specific to my case. By the way, the building project will be a one-and-a-half-story single-family house with a pitched roof and 145-150 sqm (1560-1615 sq ft) of living space, without a basement.
1. We would like to have a central ventilation system. He advises against it due to the high costs (apparently around 18,000 - 20,000) and recommends the traditional use of windows. Is this cost range of 18,000 - 20,000 realistic? I had read something about around 12,000.
2. Regarding the heating system... we would like 3-4 sqm (32-43 sq ft) of solar thermal collectors for domestic hot water. Personally, I would probably have chosen a gas condensing boiler for the underfloor heating. He recommends an air-source heat pump. I have read that these can consume a lot of electricity, plus I wouldn’t be thrilled about even a slight humming noise outside. I’m probably not too satisfied with the gas condensing boiler either. The ground here is heavily rocky (slate mountain range). He considers any drilling into the ground risky due to possible rapidly increasing costs. He also doesn’t favor horizontal ground loop collectors, because they might cause problems with plant roots. Somehow it feels like everything has its downsides. What heating types do you have? What were the costs, and how satisfied are you? How are the running costs?
3. We love the clinker brick look. We would like to cover the entire façade with genuine clinker bricks. He advised us to preferably involve companies from North Rhine-Westphalia or Northern Germany, where it is common and they have expertise. I agree with that. What is the current cost per sqm for clinker bricks? Has anyone recently had this done? How long did it take? Clinker slips (thin facing bricks) are not an option for us.
4. If possible, we want to aim for KfW 55 standard (energy-efficient building standard). With the ventilation system and solar thermal, I think we are pretty well set in that direction. Then there is of course the question of the building material. He recommends monolithic Poroton blocks. But one could also use presumably cheaper pumice blocks if it really is a clinker brick masonry. Would pumice plus clinker be sufficient for KfW 55? External thermal insulation composite systems (ETICS, known as WDVS in German) are not planned. What is the price difference between Poroton and pumice?
If you have any questions, I will gladly try to answer them.
Thanks in advance, and please don’t be too harsh on me.
B
boxandroof17 Dec 2019 11:46Bookstar schrieb:
So, 5 kWh per day in December? I wonder how that’s possible. Normally, heating the hot water alone requires that much energy. And in December, a lot of heating is needed. It’s a very low amount, but still?
We heat 210 m² (2,260 sq ft) with a system similar to KFW55 and use about 25 kWh per day. That seems more realistic to me. Comparisons don’t help much. For example, you have a circulation system installed. To compare properly, you’d have to look at the heat quantity, not just the electricity consumption.
D
Daniel-Sp17 Dec 2019 12:35Bookstar schrieb:
So, 5 kWh per day in December? I wonder how that's possible. Usually, just the hot water requires that much. And especially in December, heating demand is very high. Although the house is very small, still?
We heat 210 m2 (about 2260 sq ft) with a similar KfW 55 standard system and use around 25 kWh per day. I find that more realistic. So far, we've mostly had temperatures above 4°C (39°F); let's see how consumption is during a real freeze.
The circulation runs only 45 minutes in the evening in intervals. I noticed too late; otherwise, I would have stopped the installation.
D
Daniel-Sp17 Dec 2019 13:22Bookstar schrieb:
So, 5 kWh per day in December? I wonder how that is possible. Normally, just heating the hot water requires that much. And especially in December, a lot of heating is needed. The house is very small, but still?
We heat 210 m² (2250 sq ft) with a KFW55-equivalent system and need about 25 kWh per day. That seems more realistic to me.I have to correct myself, we have only had the electricity meter for 4 weeks, but I’m still satisfied. 1 kWh of electricity produces 5 kWh of heat.
Yes, the architect also works with specialized planners. However, a good architect understands the different techniques and does not simply let installers chisel away at a new house with a Hilti tool where they could have planned penetrations in advance. And rightly so, usually the architect is not as skilled in these techniques as the specialists within their own field. That’s why I would be cautious if an architect repeats any marketing buzzwords—whether from the sellers or the critics. If the client says, "I want to heat with raspberry juice," then the architect should specify that exactly and discuss with the contractor how the building penetrations for this technology should be handled. This also means including in the tender evaluation that the functionality and references related to that system are reviewed. This effort is not rewarded if such a planning contract remains a one-time case. That’s why many architects “prefer to do it with the little flags,” as the saying goes in a certain savings bank advertisement.
Regarding both architects and heating technologies, my mantra applies: don’t try to retrain a bricklayer into a plasterer, but either adapt the product to the contractor or vice versa, but never let a winemaker brew beer. And in the orchestra, the conductor is indeed a “load-bearing wall,” meaning in the circle of specialized planners, the architect is the hub and must achieve “good chemistry” with all the spokes. And of course, an architect should not just say yes to everything, but also avoid the attitude of “what the farmer doesn’t know, he won’t eat.”
Meanwhile, several participants here have explained how broad and complex the considerations around a heating concept are. It should be clear that you cannot simply let an architect design a house blindly according to the “we’ve always done it this way” approach and then think that by replacing what the architect originally planned in one square meter (10,8 sq ft) of the utility room with a kryptonite reactor, you have catapulted the house into the modern age with this single module. An electric motor gains nothing from an exhaust turbocharger; you have to rethink things even at the level of auxiliary units.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Regarding both architects and heating technologies, my mantra applies: don’t try to retrain a bricklayer into a plasterer, but either adapt the product to the contractor or vice versa, but never let a winemaker brew beer. And in the orchestra, the conductor is indeed a “load-bearing wall,” meaning in the circle of specialized planners, the architect is the hub and must achieve “good chemistry” with all the spokes. And of course, an architect should not just say yes to everything, but also avoid the attitude of “what the farmer doesn’t know, he won’t eat.”
Meanwhile, several participants here have explained how broad and complex the considerations around a heating concept are. It should be clear that you cannot simply let an architect design a house blindly according to the “we’ve always done it this way” approach and then think that by replacing what the architect originally planned in one square meter (10,8 sq ft) of the utility room with a kryptonite reactor, you have catapulted the house into the modern age with this single module. An electric motor gains nothing from an exhaust turbocharger; you have to rethink things even at the level of auxiliary units.
Nicon1001 schrieb:What exactly is a brick veneer “construction”? Brick veneers are brick slices cut from clinker bricks and are not built up as masonry but glued on. That means they adhere less with their bottom side to the layer of bricks beneath, but rather, like tiles, with their back side to the wall. So they are not a brick shell but a wall cladding. That’s it—there is nothing inferior about them. Questionable alternatives are only panels with foamed or printed fakes, which I would not consider clinker bricks.
since I often read that the lifespan of a brick veneer construction is not the best.
Nicon1001 schrieb:Let a virus scanner scan your gathered half-knowledge before you write a wish list to the architect with it. The idea that no maintenance is needed on a brick veneer facade is a folk myth. On a mottled sausage-colored clinker brick, dirt only shows up later than on snow-white plaster.
The idea of never having to worry about the facade again for the rest of my life seemed very appealing to me.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
B
boxandroof17 Dec 2019 15:5911ant schrieb:
Concerning architects (and heating technologies), my motto remains: don’t try to convert bricklayers specialized in red brick to white brick masons, but either adapt the product to the installer or vice versa, never make a winemaker brew beer. From my experience, I can only agree to the extent that someone who doesn’t understand how heat pumps work efficiently should not choose such providers. So much for theory.
In practice, even manufacturers set guidelines that clearly hinder efficiency. Of course, there are reasons for this, but they are not necessarily in the homeowner’s interest, who ends up paying the heating bills every year. I don’t know many architects, but I stopped involving ours early on in technical questions, and that turned out to be the right approach for us.
You have to educate yourself, monitor the process personally, be lucky, or have proper planning done. In my experience, architects and craftsmen are not suited for the latter. See also the post by Dr. Hix.
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ludwig88sta17 Dec 2019 16:42boxandroof schrieb:
You have to research and monitor everything yourself, get lucky, or hire proper professional planning. But where? In my opinion, the problem today is information overload. There are so many websites that you don’t even know where to start reading, and then you have to decide which differing opinions to trust.
For example, I am torn between a gas heating system and a heat pump (air-water or groundwater).
Do you know any energy experts [] org?
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