ᐅ Construction method: prefabricated house, solid (or masonry) house, construction manager, architectural design
Created on: 5 Aug 2014 15:59
V
Voki1Hello dear forum members,
I have now joined this forum and hope to get some useful ideas and suggestions.
We have found and purchased our dream plot of land. It is 1600 square meters (17,200 square feet) with plenty of space for children’s play areas around it.
Now the question is what we can do with the “remaining” budget of about EUR 270,000 to a maximum of EUR 300,000. Realistically, I can hardly do much myself. Well, I can still manage wallpapering and laying carpets, parquet, and laminate flooring. But beyond that, I have neither the talent nor the time.
We live in Northern Germany, more precisely in the Ammerland region.
We are struggling with three fundamental considerations and are not making much progress. The first question is how to actually build. Basically, we are considering three options: a) prefabricated house, b) solid / masonry house with a construction manager, and c) architect-designed home.
a) Prefabricated house
We have found some interesting ideas here, and we like the building method quite a lot. In particular, Schwörerhaus matches our ideas best. However, prefabricated houses apparently have the downside that they are not cheaper to build and tend to sell only at significant price reductions (if resale happens at all).
We are initially assuming that a sale will not be necessary. Are there other disadvantages that I might not be aware of? Regarding acoustic insulation, I understand that many technical improvements have been made. Are there suppliers here who can be recommended with confidence?
b) Construction manager
I have already had two semi-detached houses built turnkey using a construction manager. Both were solid masonry buildings, and the completion went quite well. Of course, there were problems — actually quite a few — but they were solved satisfactorily each time. When that many trades and people come together... mistakes happen and sometimes people are just careless. But as I said, everything worked out well in the end.
I expect (slightly) lower total costs with a construction manager because you are basically buying “off the shelf” rather than commissioning a completely new design. This way, planning costs are spread over many clients, and the overall calculation may look more favorable. And that is exactly my question: can this really be the case? The construction manager acts as general contractor and is liable for all damages and complaints. I would initially hire only a company that has been active and successful in the local market for a long time and has good creditworthiness. But wouldn’t such a company also reflect the general contractor risk in a surcharge on the prices they pay to subcontractors? Will you really end up paying less? How is this usually handled? Am I completely wrong here?
c) Architect-designed home
This is actually my preferred option. On the other hand, I do not know a single architect. I have zero experience and am a little worried about ending up with one you really should not hire. Also, the costs seem quite high in comparison. Of course, that may be only subjective because prefabricated house manufacturers and construction managers do not usually disclose their calculations, so these costs are not transparent to me.
It’s all quite frustrating.
I only know a little so far. The living area should be about 140 to 150 square meters (1500 to 1600 square feet). KfW-70 standard, nothing fancy, no basement, standard fittings. Am I way off with about 1500 euros per square meter here? As I said, I do not want to exceed my total budget because I want to pay it off someday. I am aiming for a loan term of about 17 years (because of retirement), which limits the loan amount.
Thank you very much for your comments — even from those who cannot really answer the questions but want to point that out.
Volker
I have now joined this forum and hope to get some useful ideas and suggestions.
We have found and purchased our dream plot of land. It is 1600 square meters (17,200 square feet) with plenty of space for children’s play areas around it.
Now the question is what we can do with the “remaining” budget of about EUR 270,000 to a maximum of EUR 300,000. Realistically, I can hardly do much myself. Well, I can still manage wallpapering and laying carpets, parquet, and laminate flooring. But beyond that, I have neither the talent nor the time.
We live in Northern Germany, more precisely in the Ammerland region.
We are struggling with three fundamental considerations and are not making much progress. The first question is how to actually build. Basically, we are considering three options: a) prefabricated house, b) solid / masonry house with a construction manager, and c) architect-designed home.
a) Prefabricated house
We have found some interesting ideas here, and we like the building method quite a lot. In particular, Schwörerhaus matches our ideas best. However, prefabricated houses apparently have the downside that they are not cheaper to build and tend to sell only at significant price reductions (if resale happens at all).
We are initially assuming that a sale will not be necessary. Are there other disadvantages that I might not be aware of? Regarding acoustic insulation, I understand that many technical improvements have been made. Are there suppliers here who can be recommended with confidence?
b) Construction manager
I have already had two semi-detached houses built turnkey using a construction manager. Both were solid masonry buildings, and the completion went quite well. Of course, there were problems — actually quite a few — but they were solved satisfactorily each time. When that many trades and people come together... mistakes happen and sometimes people are just careless. But as I said, everything worked out well in the end.
I expect (slightly) lower total costs with a construction manager because you are basically buying “off the shelf” rather than commissioning a completely new design. This way, planning costs are spread over many clients, and the overall calculation may look more favorable. And that is exactly my question: can this really be the case? The construction manager acts as general contractor and is liable for all damages and complaints. I would initially hire only a company that has been active and successful in the local market for a long time and has good creditworthiness. But wouldn’t such a company also reflect the general contractor risk in a surcharge on the prices they pay to subcontractors? Will you really end up paying less? How is this usually handled? Am I completely wrong here?
c) Architect-designed home
This is actually my preferred option. On the other hand, I do not know a single architect. I have zero experience and am a little worried about ending up with one you really should not hire. Also, the costs seem quite high in comparison. Of course, that may be only subjective because prefabricated house manufacturers and construction managers do not usually disclose their calculations, so these costs are not transparent to me.
It’s all quite frustrating.
I only know a little so far. The living area should be about 140 to 150 square meters (1500 to 1600 square feet). KfW-70 standard, nothing fancy, no basement, standard fittings. Am I way off with about 1500 euros per square meter here? As I said, I do not want to exceed my total budget because I want to pay it off someday. I am aiming for a loan term of about 17 years (because of retirement), which limits the loan amount.
Thank you very much for your comments — even from those who cannot really answer the questions but want to point that out.
Volker
So, in the Ammerland district (basically my home area), I would not buy a prefabricated house, as prefab house prices are quite similar throughout Germany. In Bavaria, it is "cheaper" to build a prefab house compared to local construction companies, whereas in the northwest it is "more expensive" by comparison.
I would rather look for a construction company, a general contractor, or an architect and go for individual contracting. Labor costs there are significantly more manageable. With a budget of around 230,000 euros (flat 40,000 euros of incidental costs deducted), you should be able to build a nice house. Although I don't believe the incidental costs there would actually be as high as 40,000 euros.
I would rather look for a construction company, a general contractor, or an architect and go for individual contracting. Labor costs there are significantly more manageable. With a budget of around 230,000 euros (flat 40,000 euros of incidental costs deducted), you should be able to build a nice house. Although I don't believe the incidental costs there would actually be as high as 40,000 euros.
Hello and many thanks in advance to Koempy and Bauexperte.
I. Ammerland District / Prefabricated House
You hit the nail on the head, Koempy. I already had the feeling that prefabricated houses are not really cheaper than building "conventionally" here. That surprised me somewhat, but I tried to explain it with subjective impressions and convinced myself that a good and reputable prefab house manufacturer probably wouldn’t give anything away for free. Many options were quickly eliminated anyway because I don’t want a house from Poland, nor did I want to fall for those insanely cheap deals that seem too good to be true. I don’t believe in a free lunch.
Even after Bauexperte’s post, this option seems off the table now, although we will still visit a model house (you can’t get any dumber from seeing one).
II. Plot Size
Here, I have the utmost respect both for the size and for my wife. First of all, the design of the area "in front of the house" will certainly have some priority. This space should be manageable in some way. The back yard will initially just be covered with lawn, which should be labor-intensive enough. Then a robotic lawn mower will take care of it, and we’ll carefully think about exactly what to do where. That already gives me chills, but if necessary, we’ll hire a gardener twice a year for a few hundred euros each time to refresh the soil a bit, if it comes to that.
III. Prefabricated House, Part 2
Yes, I also find that somewhat "older" prefabricated houses look quite shabby and somehow... unattractive. Subjectively, if I wanted to buy a used property, I would probably only consider prefab houses if the plot, i.e., the location, really demanded it. Then there would always be a series of strange feelings that would probably discourage a purchase or at least lead to price negotiations. I think the same will apply when trying to sell our own property. This is even more true when you consider point I. In the Ammerland District, solid construction is usually expected. Offering a prefab house would likely provoke at least a slightly disgusted facial expression unless it’s an absolutely exceptional and exclusive location at a moderate price.
IV. Architect / Construction Supervisor
I have scheduled several meetings for next week with two architects and two construction supervisors who are locally reputed to have a good standing. They have already received from me the official zoning plan and some initial thoughts. Now, let’s see if they have a rough idea and whether the chemistry overall is right. My wife and I don’t like exaggerated promises or grandiose but unbelievable price quotes; that tends to make us suspicious. In any case, they will not be able to pressure us into a contract with such tactics. I will (by the way, I’m also a lawyer) have the contract thoroughly reviewed with colleagues.
a) Architect Contract: If I understand correctly, I have to clearly define the scope of work (which is usually the case with contracts). The fee then depends on this and is calculated via a "table." This classification may have particularities regarding complexity and difficulty. These might be points that could be negotiated. We are not particularly complicated and don’t have special requirements for faucets or other gimmicks. A good and reasonable equipment level is enough for us. As I mentioned, I have built twice with construction supervisors and was mostly happy with the pricing. Any overruns we had back then were entirely self-inflicted because we deliberately and thoughtfully deviated from the specifications.
What worries me a bit is the black box of prices, as they generally have to be obtained first. Of course, you don’t really know if everything fits your expectations. You have to rely completely on the experience and diligence of the architect, otherwise, the budget can quickly be exceeded. On the other hand, construction supervisors acting as general contractors also accept some price risk because they negotiate a fixed price with us, while also facing potential price increases. They will most likely factor this risk into the prices they negotiate with us in advance. Anything else would be unwise, and I don't think they are like that.
b) Construction Supervision Contract
Advantage: relative price certainty. Here, the difference won’t probably be more than about 10,000 euros overall, but you can get a fairly reliable cost base. Based on my experience with other houses, considerable effort will be required to detail the construction and performance description. Often, these documents use nicely worded phrases that require interpretation and need to be painstakingly reworded (e.g., branded condensing boilers, modern designer faucets, Italian tiles…). Basically, we would do a selection process and include all components by name in the construction/performance description and then check whether the price still holds.
So, a lot of work needs to be done BEFORE signing the contract, and I’m curious whether the involved companies will be patient enough and willing to play along.
They will also have to tolerate that I will have an expert supervise the construction. I have a feeling that the "site manager" of these companies might want to be my friend but won’t actually be much of one. Some say they are somehow involved in profits through commissions or bonuses during the post-calculation phase, while at the same time, naturally, being on the company’s payroll. I’d rather pay the cost of professional construction supervision ourselves for our own benefit and simply feel confident that nothing really serious has been missed which could have been detected and remedied earlier.
CONCLUSION:
We will now tackle the matter concretely next week and will then have a more detailed cost idea. Then we can go to the bank, since they urgently need some kind of calculation basis, which will naturally include an upwards buffer. Conditions are currently really attractive.
I. Ammerland District / Prefabricated House
You hit the nail on the head, Koempy. I already had the feeling that prefabricated houses are not really cheaper than building "conventionally" here. That surprised me somewhat, but I tried to explain it with subjective impressions and convinced myself that a good and reputable prefab house manufacturer probably wouldn’t give anything away for free. Many options were quickly eliminated anyway because I don’t want a house from Poland, nor did I want to fall for those insanely cheap deals that seem too good to be true. I don’t believe in a free lunch.
Even after Bauexperte’s post, this option seems off the table now, although we will still visit a model house (you can’t get any dumber from seeing one).
II. Plot Size
Here, I have the utmost respect both for the size and for my wife. First of all, the design of the area "in front of the house" will certainly have some priority. This space should be manageable in some way. The back yard will initially just be covered with lawn, which should be labor-intensive enough. Then a robotic lawn mower will take care of it, and we’ll carefully think about exactly what to do where. That already gives me chills, but if necessary, we’ll hire a gardener twice a year for a few hundred euros each time to refresh the soil a bit, if it comes to that.
III. Prefabricated House, Part 2
Yes, I also find that somewhat "older" prefabricated houses look quite shabby and somehow... unattractive. Subjectively, if I wanted to buy a used property, I would probably only consider prefab houses if the plot, i.e., the location, really demanded it. Then there would always be a series of strange feelings that would probably discourage a purchase or at least lead to price negotiations. I think the same will apply when trying to sell our own property. This is even more true when you consider point I. In the Ammerland District, solid construction is usually expected. Offering a prefab house would likely provoke at least a slightly disgusted facial expression unless it’s an absolutely exceptional and exclusive location at a moderate price.
IV. Architect / Construction Supervisor
I have scheduled several meetings for next week with two architects and two construction supervisors who are locally reputed to have a good standing. They have already received from me the official zoning plan and some initial thoughts. Now, let’s see if they have a rough idea and whether the chemistry overall is right. My wife and I don’t like exaggerated promises or grandiose but unbelievable price quotes; that tends to make us suspicious. In any case, they will not be able to pressure us into a contract with such tactics. I will (by the way, I’m also a lawyer) have the contract thoroughly reviewed with colleagues.
a) Architect Contract: If I understand correctly, I have to clearly define the scope of work (which is usually the case with contracts). The fee then depends on this and is calculated via a "table." This classification may have particularities regarding complexity and difficulty. These might be points that could be negotiated. We are not particularly complicated and don’t have special requirements for faucets or other gimmicks. A good and reasonable equipment level is enough for us. As I mentioned, I have built twice with construction supervisors and was mostly happy with the pricing. Any overruns we had back then were entirely self-inflicted because we deliberately and thoughtfully deviated from the specifications.
What worries me a bit is the black box of prices, as they generally have to be obtained first. Of course, you don’t really know if everything fits your expectations. You have to rely completely on the experience and diligence of the architect, otherwise, the budget can quickly be exceeded. On the other hand, construction supervisors acting as general contractors also accept some price risk because they negotiate a fixed price with us, while also facing potential price increases. They will most likely factor this risk into the prices they negotiate with us in advance. Anything else would be unwise, and I don't think they are like that.
b) Construction Supervision Contract
Advantage: relative price certainty. Here, the difference won’t probably be more than about 10,000 euros overall, but you can get a fairly reliable cost base. Based on my experience with other houses, considerable effort will be required to detail the construction and performance description. Often, these documents use nicely worded phrases that require interpretation and need to be painstakingly reworded (e.g., branded condensing boilers, modern designer faucets, Italian tiles…). Basically, we would do a selection process and include all components by name in the construction/performance description and then check whether the price still holds.
So, a lot of work needs to be done BEFORE signing the contract, and I’m curious whether the involved companies will be patient enough and willing to play along.
They will also have to tolerate that I will have an expert supervise the construction. I have a feeling that the "site manager" of these companies might want to be my friend but won’t actually be much of one. Some say they are somehow involved in profits through commissions or bonuses during the post-calculation phase, while at the same time, naturally, being on the company’s payroll. I’d rather pay the cost of professional construction supervision ourselves for our own benefit and simply feel confident that nothing really serious has been missed which could have been detected and remedied earlier.
CONCLUSION:
We will now tackle the matter concretely next week and will then have a more detailed cost idea. Then we can go to the bank, since they urgently need some kind of calculation basis, which will naturally include an upwards buffer. Conditions are currently really attractive.
G
gillmaand6 Aug 2014 20:39Hello Mr. Neighbor
We are from Friesland and will begin building our house in September. We chose to work with an architect because we wanted a solid construction with a brick facade in a modern style. We expected more creativity and independence from an architect than from a prefab home provider or general contractor. Of course, this is purely a subjective decision. We also commissioned the full package, including construction supervision, from the architect. Therefore, the architect should be located nearby.
Our basic construction costs fall within the budget per square meter you mentioned. However, additional costs such as ancillary expenses and architect fees will apply.
Best of luck from Varel
---------------------------
Good evening,
I have removed the promotional note; since you are a new user, I cannot assess your intention. Furthermore, discussions about providers—whether subcontractors/general contractors/main contractors or architects—belong in the moderated forum; please keep this in mind. Thank you!
If you want to help the original poster, it is advisable to use private messages. They will be able to decide whether your recommendation is worth a second look.
Regards, Building Expert
Building Expert
We are from Friesland and will begin building our house in September. We chose to work with an architect because we wanted a solid construction with a brick facade in a modern style. We expected more creativity and independence from an architect than from a prefab home provider or general contractor. Of course, this is purely a subjective decision. We also commissioned the full package, including construction supervision, from the architect. Therefore, the architect should be located nearby.
Our basic construction costs fall within the budget per square meter you mentioned. However, additional costs such as ancillary expenses and architect fees will apply.
Best of luck from Varel
---------------------------
Good evening,
I have removed the promotional note; since you are a new user, I cannot assess your intention. Furthermore, discussions about providers—whether subcontractors/general contractors/main contractors or architects—belong in the moderated forum; please keep this in mind. Thank you!
If you want to help the original poster, it is advisable to use private messages. They will be able to decide whether your recommendation is worth a second look.
Regards, Building Expert
Building Expert
Hello Mr. Neighbor.
Varel is actually “almost” just around the corner. I haven’t heard of these architects before, but that doesn’t surprise me, since I’ve hardly heard of any architects at all.
It’s reassuring that your budget is sufficient. In case of emergency, we would have a buffer for costs and unexpected expenses (including outdoor areas, etc.) of about EUR 75,000, which actually feels reasonable.
Maybe I’ll schedule an appointment with them if the other meetings a) don’t go very well, b) the costs here supposedly don’t quite fit, c) the ideas somehow aren’t really our style, or d) we just have a feeling of “maybe better not to do it.”
If we approach them, I’d get in touch with you first. Maybe we can have a phone call and exchange our experiences.
Best regards
Volker
Varel is actually “almost” just around the corner. I haven’t heard of these architects before, but that doesn’t surprise me, since I’ve hardly heard of any architects at all.
It’s reassuring that your budget is sufficient. In case of emergency, we would have a buffer for costs and unexpected expenses (including outdoor areas, etc.) of about EUR 75,000, which actually feels reasonable.
Maybe I’ll schedule an appointment with them if the other meetings a) don’t go very well, b) the costs here supposedly don’t quite fit, c) the ideas somehow aren’t really our style, or d) we just have a feeling of “maybe better not to do it.”
If we approach them, I’d get in touch with you first. Maybe we can have a phone call and exchange our experiences.
Best regards
Volker
G
gillmaand6 Aug 2014 21:15gillmaand schrieb:
---------------------------
Good evening,
I have removed the advertising note; since you are a new user, I cannot assess your intention. Furthermore, discussions about providers—whether general contractor/site manager/principal contractor or architect—belong in the moderated forum; please keep this in mind. Thank you!
If you want to support the original poster constructively, the recommended way is via private message. He will certainly be able to decide if your recommendation is worth a second look.
Regards, Building Expert
Building ExpertNo problem. I will be more careful in the future.
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