Brüllheidi13 May 2020 08:59Hello everyone,
it just doesn’t stop... It’s me again with complaints :rolleyes _O Now it gets a bit complicated to explain everything. I hope I can make it clear enough
As I mentioned in the last post, we bought our windows through a private company that has them manufactured in Poland.
We also ordered aluminum roller shutter panels there (we were told at the time they are more durable and sturdy than plastic roller shutters – that’s why we chose them). Since we have a smart home system and apparently different systems are used in Poland than here in Germany, the roller shutter motors weren’t compatible, so our electrician arranged for others. No problem there, but because of this, the roller shutter panels were not delivered inside the roller shutter box, but packed in thin cardboard boxes (the shutters were rolled up – but with no additional protection around them).
It was previously agreed that the electrician would install the roller shutters together with a window company he regularly works with, including the motors.
The Polish company placed the packaged roller shutter panels inside the house at the time of delivery. Without any acceptance check, so we couldn’t inspect whether they were undamaged or had defects. They stayed there for a few weeks (work continued all around) until the window company hired by the electrician came to install them. During installation, the electrician called to report that two roller shutter panels were damaged (he also sent photos showing dents and scratches). He installed all of them anyway (he said he didn’t want us to face further delays on the construction site. He now openly admits that was a bad decision and that he wasn’t thinking clearly at the time. He also takes responsibility for the mistake – that’s unquestionable).
Now here’s the problem. The window company commissioned by the electrician says that ALL the roller shutter panels were full of dents and scratches at the time of installation. You really can’t imagine how bad they looked. It’s not just isolated slats that are damaged, but entire roller shutter panels scratched from top to bottom in some cases, with dents over long sections.
The window company we originally hired to supply the windows says the electrician is to blame. These damages could never have happened during transport. Of course, this is extremely unfortunate timing, as the damage was immediately reported to us on the day of installation when the electrician’s complaint came in, yet the panels were still installed.
Afterwards, I met again with the electrician and the window company he hired, and we talked.
Apparently, the windows from this Polish factory are good quality (Veka and Winkhaus), but the window sills and roller shutter panels are quite poor. They said they have encountered this situation on many construction sites where all the aluminum roller shutters were completely dented and scratched like ours. They also said that they would not have installed the panels on their own, but did so on the electrician’s instructions.
There has already been a meeting between the two parties, but unfortunately without success because our window company completely refuses to cooperate.
They also believe they are no longer involved and don’t have to handle or contribute to this matter anymore, even though it’s basically one side’s word against the other’s.
I have now given both parties a deadline to clarify how to proceed with this whole issue. We haven’t heard anything for a long time because no one wants to take responsibility.
Please feel free to share your opinions on this...
Best regards
Katja – who is almost losing her mind over all the damage in the house and the attempts to resolve it
it just doesn’t stop... It’s me again with complaints :rolleyes _O Now it gets a bit complicated to explain everything. I hope I can make it clear enough
As I mentioned in the last post, we bought our windows through a private company that has them manufactured in Poland.
We also ordered aluminum roller shutter panels there (we were told at the time they are more durable and sturdy than plastic roller shutters – that’s why we chose them). Since we have a smart home system and apparently different systems are used in Poland than here in Germany, the roller shutter motors weren’t compatible, so our electrician arranged for others. No problem there, but because of this, the roller shutter panels were not delivered inside the roller shutter box, but packed in thin cardboard boxes (the shutters were rolled up – but with no additional protection around them).
It was previously agreed that the electrician would install the roller shutters together with a window company he regularly works with, including the motors.
The Polish company placed the packaged roller shutter panels inside the house at the time of delivery. Without any acceptance check, so we couldn’t inspect whether they were undamaged or had defects. They stayed there for a few weeks (work continued all around) until the window company hired by the electrician came to install them. During installation, the electrician called to report that two roller shutter panels were damaged (he also sent photos showing dents and scratches). He installed all of them anyway (he said he didn’t want us to face further delays on the construction site. He now openly admits that was a bad decision and that he wasn’t thinking clearly at the time. He also takes responsibility for the mistake – that’s unquestionable).
Now here’s the problem. The window company commissioned by the electrician says that ALL the roller shutter panels were full of dents and scratches at the time of installation. You really can’t imagine how bad they looked. It’s not just isolated slats that are damaged, but entire roller shutter panels scratched from top to bottom in some cases, with dents over long sections.
The window company we originally hired to supply the windows says the electrician is to blame. These damages could never have happened during transport. Of course, this is extremely unfortunate timing, as the damage was immediately reported to us on the day of installation when the electrician’s complaint came in, yet the panels were still installed.
Afterwards, I met again with the electrician and the window company he hired, and we talked.
Apparently, the windows from this Polish factory are good quality (Veka and Winkhaus), but the window sills and roller shutter panels are quite poor. They said they have encountered this situation on many construction sites where all the aluminum roller shutters were completely dented and scratched like ours. They also said that they would not have installed the panels on their own, but did so on the electrician’s instructions.
There has already been a meeting between the two parties, but unfortunately without success because our window company completely refuses to cooperate.
They also believe they are no longer involved and don’t have to handle or contribute to this matter anymore, even though it’s basically one side’s word against the other’s.
I have now given both parties a deadline to clarify how to proceed with this whole issue. We haven’t heard anything for a long time because no one wants to take responsibility.
Please feel free to share your opinions on this...
Best regards
Katja – who is almost losing her mind over all the damage in the house and the attempts to resolve it
N
nordanney13 May 2020 09:14You really got hit hard there.
First of all, the question: what exactly is a private company? Private or a proper company? Registered office here or in Poland, or maybe none at all because it’s private?
Mistake number one. The Polish also install ordinary roller shutter motors. That basically has nothing to do with a smart home unless you want directly Wi-Fi-enabled motors – but those can also be ordered. The Poles just assemble parts more cheaply than the Germans.
Too many cooks spoil the broth. Buying from company 1, installation by companies 2 and 3...
This fits with your window thread. Nobody wants to take responsibility. Who is liable? What evidence is there?
I wouldn’t want to wear that shoe as a window installer either. You order, they deliver, and then after a few weeks suddenly the delivery is defective.
My opinion, even if you don’t want to hear it: Use your hopefully available financial reserves to replace the roller shutters. I’m afraid nothing else will work. Sorry.
First of all, the question: what exactly is a private company? Private or a proper company? Registered office here or in Poland, or maybe none at all because it’s private?
Brüllheidi schrieb:
We also ordered aluminum roller shutter slats there (we were told at the time that they are more durable and stable than plastic roller shutter slats – that’s why we chose them). Since we have a smart home and apparently Poland uses different systems than here in Germany, the roller shutter motor was therefore not usable.
Mistake number one. The Polish also install ordinary roller shutter motors. That basically has nothing to do with a smart home unless you want directly Wi-Fi-enabled motors – but those can also be ordered. The Poles just assemble parts more cheaply than the Germans.
Brüllheidi schrieb:
It was agreed beforehand that the electrician would install the roller shutter slats including the motor, working together with a window company he normally cooperates with.
Too many cooks spoil the broth. Buying from company 1, installation by companies 2 and 3...
Brüllheidi schrieb:
The window company we hired, which delivered, says the electrician is to blame. These damages could never have happened during transport. Of course, it was really unfortunate because the damage was reported by us immediately when the electrician’s complaint arrived on the day of installation, yet they were still installed.
This fits with your window thread. Nobody wants to take responsibility. Who is liable? What evidence is there?
Brüllheidi schrieb:
There was already a meeting between the two parties, unfortunately without success because our window company is completely refusing to cooperate.
I wouldn’t want to wear that shoe as a window installer either. You order, they deliver, and then after a few weeks suddenly the delivery is defective.
Brüllheidi schrieb:
Just share your opinion, please...
My opinion, even if you don’t want to hear it: Use your hopefully available financial reserves to replace the roller shutters. I’m afraid nothing else will work. Sorry.
Wow, that’s really unfortunate. My sincere sympathies.
This is definitely a complicated situation.
I don’t think we can provide legal advice here, but in my opinion, the main issue seems to be that the question of liability probably can’t be clearly determined.
For the roller shutter manufacturer, the goods are considered accepted without complaints if no one reports any defects within two weeks. However, they weren’t your direct contact — that was the window installation company.
How did it come about that the electrician is installing the roller shutters when you actually ordered them from the window company?
In any case, until the companies reach an agreement or one accepts responsibility, you won’t be able to sell the house.
Therefore, I would suggest sitting down with both parties again and proposing that the damages be split into thirds. New roller shutters would be installed, and the costs shared equally. The companies might agree to this since otherwise, one of them could end up bearing all the costs.
This way, you at least have a small chance of not being left to cover the damages on your own.
This is definitely a complicated situation.
I don’t think we can provide legal advice here, but in my opinion, the main issue seems to be that the question of liability probably can’t be clearly determined.
For the roller shutter manufacturer, the goods are considered accepted without complaints if no one reports any defects within two weeks. However, they weren’t your direct contact — that was the window installation company.
How did it come about that the electrician is installing the roller shutters when you actually ordered them from the window company?
In any case, until the companies reach an agreement or one accepts responsibility, you won’t be able to sell the house.
Therefore, I would suggest sitting down with both parties again and proposing that the damages be split into thirds. New roller shutters would be installed, and the costs shared equally. The companies might agree to this since otherwise, one of them could end up bearing all the costs.
This way, you at least have a small chance of not being left to cover the damages on your own.
Brüllheidi13 May 2020 09:28Let’s start right from the beginning. Back then, we arranged our financing through a mortgage broker. This broker also collaborates on many technical construction matters with our architect (they are involved in many sites beyond just the financing – please don’t ask me exactly how).
Then one of the mortgage brokers had the idea that since he is from Poland, we could source the windows from Poland. His cousins work in that industry.
So far, so good – we were naive and agreed to it. Hindsight is always 20/20 – I wouldn’t do it again.
We ordered the windows, and they were installed. The windows themselves are indeed of good quality – no question – except for some dents and damages that were sometimes visible in the protective film or on the plastic frame. However, all of this was immediately recorded and will be repaired.
Since we needed Wi-Fi enabled motors, those from Poland were unusable because they were not compatible with German systems.
No, we definitely will not pay out of pocket and spend another 2000 euros on something we didn’t cause. I understand that we won’t be able to resolve all the damage caused to the windows during the shell construction. But not for roller shutter panels that were installed defective by a specific trade.
The electrician already said he will hand the matter over to his lawyer to settle it with our window manufacturer, let’s put it that way.
He knows he has to sort it out somehow – but he’s not getting moving on it.
Then one of the mortgage brokers had the idea that since he is from Poland, we could source the windows from Poland. His cousins work in that industry.
So far, so good – we were naive and agreed to it. Hindsight is always 20/20 – I wouldn’t do it again.
We ordered the windows, and they were installed. The windows themselves are indeed of good quality – no question – except for some dents and damages that were sometimes visible in the protective film or on the plastic frame. However, all of this was immediately recorded and will be repaired.
Since we needed Wi-Fi enabled motors, those from Poland were unusable because they were not compatible with German systems.
No, we definitely will not pay out of pocket and spend another 2000 euros on something we didn’t cause. I understand that we won’t be able to resolve all the damage caused to the windows during the shell construction. But not for roller shutter panels that were installed defective by a specific trade.
The electrician already said he will hand the matter over to his lawyer to settle it with our window manufacturer, let’s put it that way.
He knows he has to sort it out somehow – but he’s not getting moving on it.
N
nordanney13 May 2020 09:36Brüllheidi schrieb:
Then one of the financial agents suggested that since he is from Poland, we could source the windows from Poland. His cousins work in the industry. So, not a proper company, but rather a quick order sent to Poland. Taking legal action in Poland would be difficult and expensive.
Brüllheidi schrieb:
So far so good – we were foolish enough to agree to it. Hindsight is always 20/20 – I wouldn’t do it again. No, you weren’t foolish. It worked perfectly for us.
Brüllheidi schrieb:
Since we needed Wi-Fi-enabled motors, those from Poland were unusable because they were not compatible with German systems. Wouldn’t it have been easier to use compatible actuators?
Brüllheidi schrieb:
No, we definitely won’t pay for this ourselves and fork out another 2000 euros for something we didn’t cause. But who can be proven to have caused the damage? That will probably be your problem. In case of doubt, the Polish suppliers might simply no longer be reachable.
Brüllheidi schrieb:
The electrician already said he will hand the matter over to his lawyer to sort it out with our window manufacturer, so to speak. I doubt the electrician will take legal action against the window manufacturers. What would he gain from that? Or are you planning to sue him so he can recover the damages he has to pay from the window manufacturers?
Brüllheidi13 May 2020 09:43The electrician admits to his mistake of installing the roller shutter slats that, according to him, were already defective. His main concern is that our window installer immediately took an aggressive stance, making it impossible to have a reasonable conversation. Right now, it’s a case of one statement against another regarding how the damage occurred—installation (according to our window installer, who claims the electrician’s window fitters laid the roller shutter slats on the unfinished floor and dragged them over it before installation) or transport (according to our electrician).
Similar topics