ᐅ Company Lüumel, trench collector (horizontal ground heat exchanger)
Created on: 3 Dec 2015 06:58
D
daytona
Hello everyone,
does anyone have general experience, both positive and negative, with the company Lüumel from Coswig?
I currently have an offer for a heat pump with a horizontal ground loop. I have already read quite a bit about this online. I would be interested in hearing about your experiences here as well. Unfortunately, my offer is not very detailed, so I will get in touch with the company. But maybe some of you here in the forum can help in advance:
How does the seasonal performance factor (SPF) or energy consumption compare to other heat pump systems?
Have you had a simulation or calculation of the SPF done?
What is the impact or buildability of the buried pipes in the garden, for example regarding load-bearing or drive-over capacity?
Is a heat meter absolutely necessary?
What are the pros and cons of a horizontal ground loop? (I know this is a very general question)
does anyone have general experience, both positive and negative, with the company Lüumel from Coswig?
I currently have an offer for a heat pump with a horizontal ground loop. I have already read quite a bit about this online. I would be interested in hearing about your experiences here as well. Unfortunately, my offer is not very detailed, so I will get in touch with the company. But maybe some of you here in the forum can help in advance:
How does the seasonal performance factor (SPF) or energy consumption compare to other heat pump systems?
Have you had a simulation or calculation of the SPF done?
What is the impact or buildability of the buried pipes in the garden, for example regarding load-bearing or drive-over capacity?
Is a heat meter absolutely necessary?
What are the pros and cons of a horizontal ground loop? (I know this is a very general question)
@Musketier
Now my initial questions have led me to a somewhat different but certainly important topic: electricity tariffs. It’s good that my house construction is scheduled to start only in March, so I still have some time to consider this. As someone who likes to save, I definitely should.
I assume you keep a detailed record of your consumption. How would you estimate the ratio between off-peak and peak rates for a heat pump (off-peak 10:00 pm to 6:00 am)? Do you think the following blackout periods could pose problems? (I currently rent, 2 people in the household, recent newborn, so I have little experience with such figures)
"All devices are subject daily to the following blackout periods:
8:00 am to 9:00 am
10:30 am to 12:00 pm
5:30 pm to 7:00 pm"
Sebastian79’s idea of using an intermediate meter would at least be a cost-effective option. I found significantly cheaper heat meters online (around €150). So for recording and analysis, you could probably set something up for about €300.
Now my initial questions have led me to a somewhat different but certainly important topic: electricity tariffs. It’s good that my house construction is scheduled to start only in March, so I still have some time to consider this. As someone who likes to save, I definitely should.
I assume you keep a detailed record of your consumption. How would you estimate the ratio between off-peak and peak rates for a heat pump (off-peak 10:00 pm to 6:00 am)? Do you think the following blackout periods could pose problems? (I currently rent, 2 people in the household, recent newborn, so I have little experience with such figures)
"All devices are subject daily to the following blackout periods:
8:00 am to 9:00 am
10:30 am to 12:00 pm
5:30 pm to 7:00 pm"
Sebastian79’s idea of using an intermediate meter would at least be a cost-effective option. I found significantly cheaper heat meters online (around €150). So for recording and analysis, you could probably set something up for about €300.
Phew... you’re asking questions.
I have my heat pump set up independently of blackout periods or any tariffs. Of course, I have adapted it to our personal routines. In general, I schedule my domestic hot water times during the blackout periods you mentioned (early morning and evening) or just before them. Whether that works for you, I don’t know. That probably depends on how long you shower, whether you take baths often, if it’s always at the same time, when you go to work, and so on.
The two of us mainly shower (usually one in the morning and one in the evening), and only our little one occasionally uses the bathtub. So, I can currently limit our domestic hot water heating times quite precisely. I believe I have reduced weekday hot water heating to less than 1 hour per day. Normally, it’s probably more like 2 to 3 hours.
During domestic hot water heating periods, hot water generation takes priority and the heating circuits are not supplied. Therefore, the hot water heating times should be kept as short as possible. For example, if you heat hot water from 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m., it means that including the blackout period from 4:30 p.m. to 7:00 p.m., you have no heating. That’s not ideal, but in an insulated house with underfloor heating, it’s not critical. However, if you need a lot of hot water between 5:30 p.m. and 7:00 p.m., the heating can’t produce any new hot water and you might end up with cold water in the tub.
I read in this forum once that the blackout periods only apply in exceptional cases and have never occurred so far. Whether that is true or varies from provider to provider, I have no idea.
Because our heating runs continuously and I have not programmed different temperature curves for day and night, the (heating) electricity consumption should be relatively constant throughout the day. In summer, of course, only during hot water times. However, I only record consumption in the evenings, so I can’t analyze the usage between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. versus 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. Theoretically, one could heat more between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. than necessary and heat less during the day. Whether that actually saves money probably depends on the difference between peak and off-peak rates.
I have my heat pump set up independently of blackout periods or any tariffs. Of course, I have adapted it to our personal routines. In general, I schedule my domestic hot water times during the blackout periods you mentioned (early morning and evening) or just before them. Whether that works for you, I don’t know. That probably depends on how long you shower, whether you take baths often, if it’s always at the same time, when you go to work, and so on.
The two of us mainly shower (usually one in the morning and one in the evening), and only our little one occasionally uses the bathtub. So, I can currently limit our domestic hot water heating times quite precisely. I believe I have reduced weekday hot water heating to less than 1 hour per day. Normally, it’s probably more like 2 to 3 hours.
During domestic hot water heating periods, hot water generation takes priority and the heating circuits are not supplied. Therefore, the hot water heating times should be kept as short as possible. For example, if you heat hot water from 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m., it means that including the blackout period from 4:30 p.m. to 7:00 p.m., you have no heating. That’s not ideal, but in an insulated house with underfloor heating, it’s not critical. However, if you need a lot of hot water between 5:30 p.m. and 7:00 p.m., the heating can’t produce any new hot water and you might end up with cold water in the tub.
I read in this forum once that the blackout periods only apply in exceptional cases and have never occurred so far. Whether that is true or varies from provider to provider, I have no idea.
Because our heating runs continuously and I have not programmed different temperature curves for day and night, the (heating) electricity consumption should be relatively constant throughout the day. In summer, of course, only during hot water times. However, I only record consumption in the evenings, so I can’t analyze the usage between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. versus 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. Theoretically, one could heat more between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. than necessary and heat less during the day. Whether that actually saves money probably depends on the difference between peak and off-peak rates.
@Musketier:
Can the ground heave or settlement of 20-30cm (8-12 inches) really be explained solely by ground freezing? That would be a significant and fundamental technical system flaw, wouldn’t it? How do the manufacturers respond to this, and how should this structural issue be addressed by the manufacturer to prevent damage?
Can the ground heave or settlement of 20-30cm (8-12 inches) really be explained solely by ground freezing? That would be a significant and fundamental technical system flaw, wouldn’t it? How do the manufacturers respond to this, and how should this structural issue be addressed by the manufacturer to prevent damage?
S
Sebastian794 Dec 2015 12:45Is the restriction on usage times really still enforced in Germany? It only works if you have two electricity meters anyway – I’m currently calculating it but can’t see how it would really be worthwhile. Especially in the first two years, there are still fluctuations... so I have only planned space for the second meter, but for now I will just use a general electricity tariff.
@W. Pickartz
As mentioned above, the company found that there is not enough refrigerant. This means the heat pump draws all its energy from only the first section of the loops, as the refrigerant is already changing its phase there.
Originally, 5.7 kg (12.6 lbs) of refrigerant was charged, with an additional approximately 1 kg (2.2 lbs) topped up. Whether this will actually help, we will see this winter. Otherwise, there will be another complaint, as this would likely indicate a design error.
As mentioned above, the company found that there is not enough refrigerant. This means the heat pump draws all its energy from only the first section of the loops, as the refrigerant is already changing its phase there.
Originally, 5.7 kg (12.6 lbs) of refrigerant was charged, with an additional approximately 1 kg (2.2 lbs) topped up. Whether this will actually help, we will see this winter. Otherwise, there will be another complaint, as this would likely indicate a design error.
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