ᐅ Floor plan for a 180 m² urban villa with a basement, designed for a family with three children – what are your thoughts?
Created on: 27 Dec 2020 15:20
K
Kraj
Hello dear forum members,
after reading along for a long time, the time has finally come for us as well.
Since we are always open to criticism, different perspectives, and suggestions, we look forward to your opinions on our floor plan design.
Before entering the crucial phase, the two of us created a self-designed floor plan, and this is the one we want to move forward with.
Now, onto the details:
Development Plan/Restrictions
Plot size: 880m² (0.22 acres)
Slope: Approximately 2m (6.5 feet) between the east and west property boundaries but varying significantly—see surveying documents
Floor area ratio: 0.4
Gross floor area ratio: 0.8
Building envelope, building line and boundary: 13x10m (43x33 feet) for one full story and 10x10m (33x33 feet) for two full stories
Edge development: None
Number of parking spaces: No requirements
Number of stories: 2
Roof type: According to the development plan, pitched roofs are mandatory
Architectural style: Urban villa
Orientation: Main entrance on the east side, terrace and recreational garden on the west side, utility garden on east side
Maximum heights/limits: According to the development plan no specification other than two full stories
Other requirements: Rainwater must infiltrate the plot. According to the soil report, the ground is not optimally permeable. Additionally, some hydrostatic pressure from groundwater is expected. Therefore, we plan to install a cistern to use rainwater.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: Solid construction (Ytong), 35cm (14 inches) hip roof with 80cm (31 inches) knee wall
Basement, floors: Basement 10x10m (33x33 feet) precast waterproof concrete basement (white tank construction)
Number of occupants, age: Parents 36 and 33, children 3.5 and 1.5 years old, plus one due July 2021
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor: Ground floor 80m² (860 sq ft), upper floor 80m² (860 sq ft), attic 15-20m² (160-215 sq ft), basement mainly utility but with a larger fitness room planned
Office: Family use or home office?: Home office only. Before COVID-19, working at home 2-3 days a week; in 2020 a total of 10 months working from home; after COVID-19 probably 3-4 days a week home office
Overnight guests per year: 5
Open or closed architecture: Open on the ground floor
Traditional or modern construction: Modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Open with large kitchen island, cooking happens daily, about once a month guests up to 8 people, pantry directly adjacent to kitchen
Number of dining seats: 6-8, expandable with an additional table
Fireplace: No
Music/stereo wall: No
Balcony, roof terrace: No
Garage, carport: Large garage plus possibly 1-2 guest parking spaces
Utility garden, greenhouse: Yes, large greenhouse (possibly earth-sheltered) planned on east side with south orientation
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasoning why certain things should or should not be included: Very bright ground floor with many windows, where only the middle lift-and-slide door and the door near the kitchen can be opened, all other windows on the ground floor are fixed glazing. Photovoltaics and KNX home automation system are planned.
House Design
Who created the plan: DIY
What do you especially like? Why?: Large living/dining area, open kitchen, pantry, three children’s rooms roughly equal in size facing the garden
What do you dislike? Why?: No walk-in closet in the master bedroom
Price estimate according to architect/planner: 400,000 without additional construction costs
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 415,000
Preferred heating technology: Geothermal (either probe or trench collector) with underfloor heating
If you had to give up, which details/extensions
-could you do without: Walk-in closet in the bedroom
-could you not do without: Large living/dining area, open kitchen, pantry, three children’s rooms roughly equal in size facing the garden
Why is the design the way it is now?
This is the 12th or 13th version after long discussions and considerations. Whether it is more or less final also depends on your feedback.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
Optimally use space and layout, avoid pitfalls.
after reading along for a long time, the time has finally come for us as well.
Since we are always open to criticism, different perspectives, and suggestions, we look forward to your opinions on our floor plan design.
Before entering the crucial phase, the two of us created a self-designed floor plan, and this is the one we want to move forward with.
Now, onto the details:
Development Plan/Restrictions
Plot size: 880m² (0.22 acres)
Slope: Approximately 2m (6.5 feet) between the east and west property boundaries but varying significantly—see surveying documents
Floor area ratio: 0.4
Gross floor area ratio: 0.8
Building envelope, building line and boundary: 13x10m (43x33 feet) for one full story and 10x10m (33x33 feet) for two full stories
Edge development: None
Number of parking spaces: No requirements
Number of stories: 2
Roof type: According to the development plan, pitched roofs are mandatory
Architectural style: Urban villa
Orientation: Main entrance on the east side, terrace and recreational garden on the west side, utility garden on east side
Maximum heights/limits: According to the development plan no specification other than two full stories
Other requirements: Rainwater must infiltrate the plot. According to the soil report, the ground is not optimally permeable. Additionally, some hydrostatic pressure from groundwater is expected. Therefore, we plan to install a cistern to use rainwater.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: Solid construction (Ytong), 35cm (14 inches) hip roof with 80cm (31 inches) knee wall
Basement, floors: Basement 10x10m (33x33 feet) precast waterproof concrete basement (white tank construction)
Number of occupants, age: Parents 36 and 33, children 3.5 and 1.5 years old, plus one due July 2021
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor: Ground floor 80m² (860 sq ft), upper floor 80m² (860 sq ft), attic 15-20m² (160-215 sq ft), basement mainly utility but with a larger fitness room planned
Office: Family use or home office?: Home office only. Before COVID-19, working at home 2-3 days a week; in 2020 a total of 10 months working from home; after COVID-19 probably 3-4 days a week home office
Overnight guests per year: 5
Open or closed architecture: Open on the ground floor
Traditional or modern construction: Modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Open with large kitchen island, cooking happens daily, about once a month guests up to 8 people, pantry directly adjacent to kitchen
Number of dining seats: 6-8, expandable with an additional table
Fireplace: No
Music/stereo wall: No
Balcony, roof terrace: No
Garage, carport: Large garage plus possibly 1-2 guest parking spaces
Utility garden, greenhouse: Yes, large greenhouse (possibly earth-sheltered) planned on east side with south orientation
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasoning why certain things should or should not be included: Very bright ground floor with many windows, where only the middle lift-and-slide door and the door near the kitchen can be opened, all other windows on the ground floor are fixed glazing. Photovoltaics and KNX home automation system are planned.
House Design
Who created the plan: DIY
What do you especially like? Why?: Large living/dining area, open kitchen, pantry, three children’s rooms roughly equal in size facing the garden
What do you dislike? Why?: No walk-in closet in the master bedroom
Price estimate according to architect/planner: 400,000 without additional construction costs
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 415,000
Preferred heating technology: Geothermal (either probe or trench collector) with underfloor heating
If you had to give up, which details/extensions
-could you do without: Walk-in closet in the bedroom
-could you not do without: Large living/dining area, open kitchen, pantry, three children’s rooms roughly equal in size facing the garden
Why is the design the way it is now?
This is the 12th or 13th version after long discussions and considerations. Whether it is more or less final also depends on your feedback.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
Optimally use space and layout, avoid pitfalls.
Hausbau0815 schrieb:
That confuses me a bit. We are getting 2 air-to-water heat pumps, each 14 kW, and 2 heat pump storage tanks of 360 liters (95 gallons) each. Well, that's how it is without detailed execution and factory planning.
Kraj schrieb:
performing a lot of work themselves, including the following: How many hours of own labor have you estimated?
X
XxTankerxX28 Dec 2020 13:31Phew... my place will be 170m2 (1830 sq ft), and here it has already been estimated at 500k. I also think you’ll need to add about another 100k to your estimate.
H
hampshire28 Dec 2020 15:42The regional prices vary quite a bit. In the suburban areas around Düsseldorf / Cologne, probably yes; in other regions of North Rhine-Westphalia, probably not. In Bavaria, it also makes a difference whether you build in Bamberg, Günzburg, Vilshofen, or Rosenheim.
Kraj schrieb:
Since we are always open to criticism, different perspectives, and suggestions, we look forward to your feedback on our floor plan design.... and we look forward to a discussion with you @Kraj 🙂ypg schrieb:
Then the whole floor plan idea is pointless... a lot will change.
If you go for a 2.30 m (7 ft 7 in) width, consider making the entire stairwell niche 2.50 m (8 ft 2 in) wide at a ceiling height of 2.50 m (8 ft 2 in)... that’s better.
That will be a rather expensive room: estimated 4 square meters (43 square feet) at 2000 per square meter... 8000, where even shelves can’t hold a baking tray. Do you really want such a “hamster cage”?
Wow, you’re planning 4 floors… three of them heated.
If you then also have to raise the basement, and the attic gets 80 cm (31 inches) of sand-lime brick, this will be a pretty tall house. A little tower.
Respect or madness.
I don’t think you’ll compensate the budget shortfall with this. The construction will be prolonged and the loan interest during the extended period will have to be paid.
You’re currently planning an expensive utility basement and a more costly pyramid roof than typical urban villa roofs just so the attic can be used at all.
Since you have to redesign anyway, and you should keep in mind that narrow hallway-like rooms are neither nice nor functional, and towers are generally not considered attractive nowadays, you might want to consider reshuffling the house and rooms. At first glance, both the cloakroom and hallway can easily handle the staircase being 30 cm (12 inches) wider, but it’s not so straightforward upstairs. So the staircase is still a to-do.
Yes, I’m curious how it looks in the initial sketches regarding the height—it’s all still very flexible and far from finalized. However, we haven’t seen a house with two full stories that is lower with a gable roof than with a hip/pyramid roof. What are common urban villa roofs? A hip roof? We could also imagine that; we’re not tied to a specific roof style as long as two full stories are maintained.
superzapp schrieb:
That sounds utopian at first, but others also have ambitious goals (@hegi___ with his 1200 €/m² house).
Good to hear my assessment of the heat pump plus horizontal trench collector fits. The Nibe (under 10K online, usually 11-12K through plumbing contractors) was our first choice; on our energy advisor’s recommendation, we’re now going with an Alpha Innotec (same parent company). I assume you’re going with the smallest Nibe with 7 kW?
Nibe says the controlled residential ventilation from their own line works together with the heat pump, so both are eligible for BAFA funding—if BAFA still offers support for heat pumps?
What energy standard are you aiming for?
Are the costs before or after deducting subsidies?
How much self-labor do you estimate? 100,000 is realistically very hard to achieve (but not impossible).
In our building area, one couple built their semi-detached house almost entirely themselves—from shell, masonry, and ceilings to laying electrical cables. But that took them quite some time (6-7 months?) and they were often, but not always, working full time on the project.
Do you and your friends have that much time? Yes, the small Nibe and ventilation by Zehnder or also Nibe. At least KfW55 standard, and we estimate at least 80,000 € worth of self-labor, nearly 45,000 € just for the shell. See below for the rest.
Hausbau0815 schrieb:
What do you and your friends do for a living? Are you from the construction sector? The master craftsman requirement exists for a reason in many trades, and my general contractor is a butcher by profession—no joke. I only realized that recently but now see the consequences. Right now, we are tearing down all drywall from two semi-detached halves because the vapor barrier was wrongly glued.
400 square meters (4300 square feet) of drywall area, double-layered throughout.
On the other hand, with such a large amount of planned self-labor, your wife will end up resenting you for being permanently on site while she is left alone with three small children. Seriously reconsider this scope. I think it’s unrealistic. I’m not from the trade, but the strong helpers (bricklayers, plumbers) are. See below for the rest.
K1300S schrieb:
So, to summarize:
You want to build a 10 x 10 m (33 x 33 ft) house with two full stories, basement, and finished attic, with a ground source heat pump, KNX smart home system, and presumably other “must-haves”? You will never pull this off for 400 K (or even 415 K) including everything, self-labor or not. That’s my opinion. As @ivenh0 already pointed out: you’re missing a six-figure sum. If you budget another 200 K for incidental expenses, maybe it looks different. 😉 See below.
MayrCh schrieb:
Well, that’s life without execution and shop drawings.
How many hours of self-labor have you planned? Apparently, our floor plan is not so wrong since criticism mainly targets the budget and self-labor.
Or are we misinterpreting that? 🙂
Then let us share more about our planning:
- Masonry of all exterior and interior walls with 2 friends: depending on weather, 3-5 weeks. We only do walls, no ceiling or roof work.
- Installation of the horizontal trench collector: according to many reports, doable on a weekend with two people.
- Installing ventilation ducts for the air system: using flat duct and plug system, installation is quick; time-consuming are the wall openings; overall doable in 3 days.
- Installing underfloor heating including insulation but without screed: using tack-mat system in 1 week. My cousin has a plumbing company and supports ventilation and underfloor heating work.
- Chasing and laying electrical and KNX bus lines: wiring plan ready; chasing and laying cables in conduits take about 1 week.
- Laying all floor coverings: undecided due to no final decision on flooring materials yet.
Yes, that’s a lot, but with parental leave, every free minute on site, and strong support, it is manageable. Of course, it won’t be easy; we are fully aware of that.
K
knalltüte28 Dec 2020 21:21Kraj schrieb:
... Yes, the small Nibe and for ventilation Zehnder or also Nibe. At least KfW55 and an estimated 80,000€ of own work, nearly 45,000€ just for the shell construction. See below for the rest.I would compare both options side by side and calculate as accurately as possible (or have it calculated) from KfW55 up to Passive House. If there is BAFA funding for both (35%), I would always opt for a system controlled by a central unit (a requirement for the subsidy).Also calculate what you want anyway (e.g., photovoltaic system?, controlled residential ventilation system?) and then see what the final cost is after deducting additional subsidies. But you might need an energy consultant for that...
Kraj schrieb:
Then we’ll share our planning with you:
- Building the complete external and internal walls with two friends: Depending on weather, 3-5 weeks, we are only laying the walls, not ceilings or roof work.I think that’s doable, considering how long similar builds have taken. But keep in mind that if you have to wait for the ceilings to be finished or other trades, your schedule might get disrupted. Mixing contracted work and own work in a tight schedule requires a lot of discipline.Kraj schrieb:
- Installation of the horizontal ground collector: According to many experience reports, doable with two people over a weekend.That certainly should be possible (with heavy equipment).Kraj schrieb:
- Installation of the ventilation ducts for the ventilation system: Using flat duct and plug-in system, the installation goes quickly; the time-consuming part is making wall penetrations, but overall doable in 3 days.We are doing the same, I think that fits. But flat ducting is really expensive. Our 70mm (3 inch) round duct, for example, costs only about €3/m (€3.30/yd) 😉Kraj schrieb:
- Installation of underfloor heating including insulation but without screed: Tack mat system in 1 week. My cousin runs a plumbing company and is providing strong support with ventilation and underfloor heating.That seems realistic to me as well. My brother-in-law did this for his son a few months ago and I was there a few times (not to help). It’s not that difficult if you have suitable plans and tools (unwinder, stapler…).Kraj schrieb:
- Chasing and laying electrical and bus cables for KNX: Finished wiring plan will be provided; chasing and laying cables in conduit planned for 1 week.That’s ambitious. I would schedule more time here, especially so that all cables can be labeled properly right away. Pulling cables through conduit takes time, and installing conduit is awkward.Kraj schrieb:
Yes, it’s a lot, but with parental leave, every spare minute on site, and strong support, definitely doable. But we know it won’t be a walk in the park.I see you have a plan. But better include some time buffers here and there. Something always comes up 😀 For example, I feel my “old bones” today even though I was only on site for 6-7 hours doing light work (insulation and battens). That’s quite different from office work and you shouldn’t underestimate the physical demands.Similar topics