Good evening everyone,
Due to the limited availability of existing properties and some very specific requirements, we are planning a single-family house with a few special features. First of all: I am open to all suggestions and also welcome honest, well-founded criticism.
Some basics:
1. We have two children (3 and 1 years old) and are planning for a third, so there will be five of us eventually.
2. DIY work is almost out of the question. Only painting and laying carpet flooring in the basement are tasks we feel capable of doing ourselves.
3. I definitely need a separate home office since I mostly work from home (planned in the basement, see below).
4. A very large hobby room is a must in the basement. It should be rectangular and at least 2.70m (8.9 ft) high (hence basement ceiling height 2.70m).
5. We want to be as uninvolved as possible in the construction, so we have only looked at prefab house providers so far and would currently prefer a turnkey construction.
6. WE DO NOT HAVE A PLOT YET! Therefore, the house has been designed so that its roof and number of floors should fit many potential plots roof pitch 35 degrees, knee wall 120cm (47 inches).
Today we received an offer from the prefab house company that seemed "quite suitable" to us so far. The salesperson was to consider the following requirements in addition to those mentioned above:
1. The children should live on the upper floor. In addition, a guest room/home office (for my wife) should be included there.
2. The master bedroom should be on the ground floor with its own bathroom. A separate guest toilet should also be on the ground floor.
3. My wife wants an open L-shaped living/dining room if possible.
4. A small separate pantry should be located behind the kitchen.
5. We are not into "frills." Large galleries, huge bathrooms, big hallways, etc. are considered a waste of space and money. So rather functional and practical.
Our initial assessment
Without preempting your professional opinions, we find the following aspects of the proposed floor plan problematic:
1. The biggest concern is the kitchen’s width of only 2.15m (7 ft). This is unacceptable. The seller then suggested extending the kitchen by 1.20m (4 ft) with some kind of "addition" (sorry, I don’t know the correct technical term). However, this extension would cost at least 12,000. We were not very enthusiastic about this idea.
2. The guest/home office on the upper floor also seems impractical for the same reasons.
3. In general, I find the angled room for child 1 on the upper floor not ideal to use.
4. Isn’t the master bathroom too narrow at 1.8m (6 ft)? Of course, we are slim but these dimensions seem tight.
5. I consider both the type and location of the staircase suboptimal. I would prefer it on the side, and we want a continuous staircase from top to bottom, not one that leads down through a separate door as shown in the plan (not a dealbreaker, but feels odd to us, especially given the already narrow kitchen…). What kind of staircase would you choose? Where would you place it?
6. Is the arrangement of the bathrooms acceptable? From a layman’s perspective, I thought that at least the children’s and parents’ bathrooms should be above each other.
7. How do you assess the lighting situation through the windows? We find it suboptimal in some rooms. A bright house is very important to us! Where else would you add windows?
8. Surely subjective as with many things, but how do you evaluate the fact that my office is in the basement? I will be spending a lot of time there.
Thank you very much for every suggestion! I am aware we are still at a very early stage, but our goal is to have a "reliable" floor plan soon that will largely be set (I understand that the layout of rooms will ultimately depend on the specific plot and might require further adjustments).
Questionnaire
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: not yet available, should be 600–1000m2 (6460–10760 sq ft), having a garden is very important to us!
Slope: n/a, we are generally open to a sloped site (for light in the basement)
Builders’ requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: Open to almost anything... my wife is not a fan of the "cube" style. Planned as roof pitch 35 degrees, knee wall 120cm (47 inches)
Basement, floors: Full basement (mandatory, see above), 2 floors (or does the upper floor not count fully because of the knee wall?)
Number of people, age: 4 people (39, 34, 3, 1 years old), planning a third child in the future
Space requirements on ground floor/upper floor: Ground floor: living/dining room, parents’ bedroom, parents’ bathroom, guest toilet, pantry; Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, guest room, children’s bathroom; Basement: hobby room, office, utility room
Office: Family use or home office? Main workplace is the office
Guests per year: several times a year, probably more in future due to children
Open or closed architecture: Don’t quite understand this; "open" in living/dining, but no gallery or entrance hall, please!
Conservative or modern design: Either possible
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Definitely. A kitchen island would be nice (not realized in the current design, also not a must-have)
Number of dining seats: 1
Fireplace: Prepared, included in budget with 4,500
Music/stereo system: High-quality integrated stereo system planned in the living room, I will handle this myself
Balcony, roof terrace: Not important because the garden is our priority.
Garage, carport: Secondary for now (budget!), both could be added later and should thus be kept in mind.
Kitchen garden, greenhouse: Garden is very important, especially to my wife. It doesn’t have to be huge, but she wants a kitchen garden and enjoys regularly redesigning it.
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, reasons why or why not: Very large rectangular hobby room with high ceilings.
House design
Who designed the plan: independent sales agent of prefab house company
What do you particularly like? Basically, our wishes (see above) were taken into account. Admittedly, the hobby room is my thing and I quite like it.
What do you not like? See our eight points above, especially the kitchen being so inadequate.
Price estimate according to architect/planner: 415,000 for the entire house (DIN 277 living space ground + upper floor = 177m2 or 1905 sq ft, basement 88m2 or 947 sq ft)
Personal price limit for house, including fittings: 450,000
Preferred heating technology: I have no idea! Planned is a condensing gas boiler with underfloor heating (also in the basement). Suggestions are welcome here as well.
If you had to give up, which details/extensions
- Could you do without: Everything is already planned very functionally in our opinion, so no "frills," no oversized bathrooms, etc. Well, except for the hobby room, I know
- Could you not do without: See above.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters
How can the kitchen be designed/integrated properly, staircase better placed, parents’ bathroom improved, and upper floor clarified further?
Due to the limited availability of existing properties and some very specific requirements, we are planning a single-family house with a few special features. First of all: I am open to all suggestions and also welcome honest, well-founded criticism.
Some basics:
1. We have two children (3 and 1 years old) and are planning for a third, so there will be five of us eventually.
2. DIY work is almost out of the question. Only painting and laying carpet flooring in the basement are tasks we feel capable of doing ourselves.
3. I definitely need a separate home office since I mostly work from home (planned in the basement, see below).
4. A very large hobby room is a must in the basement. It should be rectangular and at least 2.70m (8.9 ft) high (hence basement ceiling height 2.70m).
5. We want to be as uninvolved as possible in the construction, so we have only looked at prefab house providers so far and would currently prefer a turnkey construction.
6. WE DO NOT HAVE A PLOT YET! Therefore, the house has been designed so that its roof and number of floors should fit many potential plots roof pitch 35 degrees, knee wall 120cm (47 inches).
Today we received an offer from the prefab house company that seemed "quite suitable" to us so far. The salesperson was to consider the following requirements in addition to those mentioned above:
1. The children should live on the upper floor. In addition, a guest room/home office (for my wife) should be included there.
2. The master bedroom should be on the ground floor with its own bathroom. A separate guest toilet should also be on the ground floor.
3. My wife wants an open L-shaped living/dining room if possible.
4. A small separate pantry should be located behind the kitchen.
5. We are not into "frills." Large galleries, huge bathrooms, big hallways, etc. are considered a waste of space and money. So rather functional and practical.
Our initial assessment
Without preempting your professional opinions, we find the following aspects of the proposed floor plan problematic:
1. The biggest concern is the kitchen’s width of only 2.15m (7 ft). This is unacceptable. The seller then suggested extending the kitchen by 1.20m (4 ft) with some kind of "addition" (sorry, I don’t know the correct technical term). However, this extension would cost at least 12,000. We were not very enthusiastic about this idea.
2. The guest/home office on the upper floor also seems impractical for the same reasons.
3. In general, I find the angled room for child 1 on the upper floor not ideal to use.
4. Isn’t the master bathroom too narrow at 1.8m (6 ft)? Of course, we are slim but these dimensions seem tight.
5. I consider both the type and location of the staircase suboptimal. I would prefer it on the side, and we want a continuous staircase from top to bottom, not one that leads down through a separate door as shown in the plan (not a dealbreaker, but feels odd to us, especially given the already narrow kitchen…). What kind of staircase would you choose? Where would you place it?
6. Is the arrangement of the bathrooms acceptable? From a layman’s perspective, I thought that at least the children’s and parents’ bathrooms should be above each other.
7. How do you assess the lighting situation through the windows? We find it suboptimal in some rooms. A bright house is very important to us! Where else would you add windows?
8. Surely subjective as with many things, but how do you evaluate the fact that my office is in the basement? I will be spending a lot of time there.
Thank you very much for every suggestion! I am aware we are still at a very early stage, but our goal is to have a "reliable" floor plan soon that will largely be set (I understand that the layout of rooms will ultimately depend on the specific plot and might require further adjustments).
Questionnaire
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: not yet available, should be 600–1000m2 (6460–10760 sq ft), having a garden is very important to us!
Slope: n/a, we are generally open to a sloped site (for light in the basement)
Builders’ requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: Open to almost anything... my wife is not a fan of the "cube" style. Planned as roof pitch 35 degrees, knee wall 120cm (47 inches)
Basement, floors: Full basement (mandatory, see above), 2 floors (or does the upper floor not count fully because of the knee wall?)
Number of people, age: 4 people (39, 34, 3, 1 years old), planning a third child in the future
Space requirements on ground floor/upper floor: Ground floor: living/dining room, parents’ bedroom, parents’ bathroom, guest toilet, pantry; Upper floor: 3 children’s rooms, guest room, children’s bathroom; Basement: hobby room, office, utility room
Office: Family use or home office? Main workplace is the office
Guests per year: several times a year, probably more in future due to children
Open or closed architecture: Don’t quite understand this; "open" in living/dining, but no gallery or entrance hall, please!
Conservative or modern design: Either possible
Open kitchen, kitchen island: Definitely. A kitchen island would be nice (not realized in the current design, also not a must-have)
Number of dining seats: 1
Fireplace: Prepared, included in budget with 4,500
Music/stereo system: High-quality integrated stereo system planned in the living room, I will handle this myself
Balcony, roof terrace: Not important because the garden is our priority.
Garage, carport: Secondary for now (budget!), both could be added later and should thus be kept in mind.
Kitchen garden, greenhouse: Garden is very important, especially to my wife. It doesn’t have to be huge, but she wants a kitchen garden and enjoys regularly redesigning it.
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, reasons why or why not: Very large rectangular hobby room with high ceilings.
House design
Who designed the plan: independent sales agent of prefab house company
What do you particularly like? Basically, our wishes (see above) were taken into account. Admittedly, the hobby room is my thing and I quite like it.
What do you not like? See our eight points above, especially the kitchen being so inadequate.
Price estimate according to architect/planner: 415,000 for the entire house (DIN 277 living space ground + upper floor = 177m2 or 1905 sq ft, basement 88m2 or 947 sq ft)
Personal price limit for house, including fittings: 450,000
Preferred heating technology: I have no idea! Planned is a condensing gas boiler with underfloor heating (also in the basement). Suggestions are welcome here as well.
If you had to give up, which details/extensions
- Could you do without: Everything is already planned very functionally in our opinion, so no "frills," no oversized bathrooms, etc. Well, except for the hobby room, I know
- Could you not do without: See above.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters
How can the kitchen be designed/integrated properly, staircase better placed, parents’ bathroom improved, and upper floor clarified further?
Hausbauer schrieb:
I would advise you to stay away from that and be honest—I wouldn’t recommend it. It’s better to start by searching for a separate plot of land yourself, even if that means making calls or trying other desperate measures to find one independent from the provider. Or go straight for a proper developer contract where you know the plot in advance.
Do you know any satisfied previous customers of this provider? I mean people you know personally or have found by asking around, not those listed by the provider themselves?
What I liked best during our search were developers who named reference projects but said, “Please don’t ring the doorbell, we send so many people there that the homeowners are really annoyed.” I once talked to a previous customer when he was in the garden; he was very open about how the construction went. After that, I definitely didn’t want to build with that company anymore. After pretty much everyone advised me/us to first and proactively look for a plot myself/ourselves, I/we will seriously consider this option. Thanks to everyone for their feedback on this! The provider is one of the major players in the prefab house sector. When researching thoroughly online, you can find both praise and horror stories about every company. But with one of the big, well-established companies, I at least feel subjectively (!) more secure.
face26 schrieb:
Let me ask it from another angle... what is the purpose of a contract for the provider if you can cancel it at any time without any restrictions or penalty (money)? What kind of commitment is the provider expecting from that?Yep, I’m wondering the same. First, the contract would need to be reviewed. But asking from another perspective: what damage would the provider suffer if I cancel? Exactly, none. Nothing more than a pending transaction.
ypg schrieb:
I had a feeling...
But this isn’t a wishful-thinking situation. If you sign off on this path, then that's how it will be. It would be quite naive to include this aspect (land brokerage) in a contract... Regarding the property transfer tax, we can exclude this point. Due to my profession, I am familiar with what needs to be considered here and which measures might attract the attention of the tax authorities.
Hausbauer schrieb:
That would make me completely depressed, working full-time in a dark basement – unless there is a large sloped area with a window front planned.
In that case, I would rather move the guest room to the basement (well, effectively sooner or later you’ll end up converting the above-ground guest room into a home office anyway).The window front is planned, but then we are back to the plot again. Otherwise, I agree with you and it’s also my consideration.
HsweetH schrieb:
Yep, I’m wondering the same. First, the contract would need to be available. But looking at it from the other side: what damage would the provider suffer if I cancel? Exactly, none. Just a pending deal. They probably see it differently. Time and planning effort. How many people do you think express interest but then never follow up?
The point is, a contract only makes sense if it is binding in some way. Otherwise, it’s not worth the effort. Providers don’t currently feel they are that “needed.”
So, again, why would they go through the trouble of creating a contract if it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on?
You can take a look at it yourself then… On the forum, people keep showing up complaining that they signed too quickly.
M
Matthew0313 Jan 2020 12:07HsweetH schrieb:
Thank you for your straightforward statement. If you could briefly support it with some arguments—perhaps assuming there is an unconditional right of withdrawal—I would appreciate it even more. That is exactly what everyone here wants to make clear: such a right does not exist. Not unconditionally. That’s why you only have it verbally so far.
There is plenty of reading material available via the search function, for example here https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/vorgehen-und-Planung-Grundstück-efh-im-mtk.32091/ or here https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/Hausvertrag-Massa-Vorbereitung.32755/page-2
A few months ago, there was a thread where someone signed something like that and unfortunately only contacted the forum afterward. I can’t find it quickly, but maybe @11ant can help... the extent of the issue is well described there as well.