Hello everyone!
I would appreciate your opinions regarding houses from the 1960s.
We have the following "problem":
We found a house that we like quite a lot overall (appearance, layout), with only a few minor issues. In other words, we would have to make very few compromises compared to our expectations. The house also has a great location (on the edge of a village with 3,000 residents, south-facing with an unobstructed view), and the neighbors are familiar and acceptable.
It’s a corner bungalow built in 1967 with a plot size of 730 sqm (7,860 sq ft), 160 sqm (1,720 sq ft) of living space, and about the same area for the basement including an integrated garage. The house is well maintained and in generally good condition (solid structure). The official land value here is around 80 Euro/sqm (8.50 USD/sq ft).
Our main issue:
As expected from a house from this era, there is basically no thermal insulation. Naturally, we have looked into energy-efficient renovation options, but due to the flood of information, we’re no wiser than before—especially since there are many critical voices regarding external wall insulation (no cost-effectiveness, mold, moisture in the facade, later disposal issues, etc.).
Therefore, our question now is: Is it still worthwhile to buy such a house at today’s energy prices without deducting the total renovation costs (even if you might not carry them out) from the purchase price?
The asking price for the property is reportedly about 210,000 Euro (around 225,000 USD), which felt quite high to us from the start. However, we expect the final purchase price to be somewhat lower. If you roughly estimate the renovation costs (possibly external insulation, new windows, doors, bathroom, guest toilet, kitchen, flooring, heating), you're quickly looking at about 100,000 Euro (around 107,000 USD), which combined with the purchase price almost exceeds the cost of a new build. If you avoid major energy-related investments, you will face much higher energy costs compared to a new house.
One should also consider that the roof might need attention in the medium term (it currently looks good, tiled).
What are your thoughts or experiences in this context?
Would it be more reasonable to build new? We could get a 600 sqm (6,460 sq ft) plot in about a year for roughly 60,000 Euro (64,000 USD). However, the location would not be as nice.
Thanks in advance for your contributions!
I would appreciate your opinions regarding houses from the 1960s.
We have the following "problem":
We found a house that we like quite a lot overall (appearance, layout), with only a few minor issues. In other words, we would have to make very few compromises compared to our expectations. The house also has a great location (on the edge of a village with 3,000 residents, south-facing with an unobstructed view), and the neighbors are familiar and acceptable.
It’s a corner bungalow built in 1967 with a plot size of 730 sqm (7,860 sq ft), 160 sqm (1,720 sq ft) of living space, and about the same area for the basement including an integrated garage. The house is well maintained and in generally good condition (solid structure). The official land value here is around 80 Euro/sqm (8.50 USD/sq ft).
Our main issue:
As expected from a house from this era, there is basically no thermal insulation. Naturally, we have looked into energy-efficient renovation options, but due to the flood of information, we’re no wiser than before—especially since there are many critical voices regarding external wall insulation (no cost-effectiveness, mold, moisture in the facade, later disposal issues, etc.).
Therefore, our question now is: Is it still worthwhile to buy such a house at today’s energy prices without deducting the total renovation costs (even if you might not carry them out) from the purchase price?
The asking price for the property is reportedly about 210,000 Euro (around 225,000 USD), which felt quite high to us from the start. However, we expect the final purchase price to be somewhat lower. If you roughly estimate the renovation costs (possibly external insulation, new windows, doors, bathroom, guest toilet, kitchen, flooring, heating), you're quickly looking at about 100,000 Euro (around 107,000 USD), which combined with the purchase price almost exceeds the cost of a new build. If you avoid major energy-related investments, you will face much higher energy costs compared to a new house.
One should also consider that the roof might need attention in the medium term (it currently looks good, tiled).
What are your thoughts or experiences in this context?
Would it be more reasonable to build new? We could get a 600 sqm (6,460 sq ft) plot in about a year for roughly 60,000 Euro (64,000 USD). However, the location would not be as nice.
Thanks in advance for your contributions!
B
Bauexperte14 Feb 2012 11:32Hello,
I always tell my children "believe what you want in church"
In any case, before making a final purchasing decision, you should involve an expert who can assess the location and condition of the building—unless such a report is already provided by the sellers. Additionally, this expert can independently determine the so-called market value of the property including all buildings. This provides a solid basis for later price negotiations. The property appraisal will address, among other things, legal burdens on the property (such as usufruct or utility easements) as well as structural damages and estimate the costs of their remediation. This way, you know what financial obligations might arise even after the purchase. Furthermore, an architect can realistically assess the renovation and refurbishment needs and support you later during these works with their specialist knowledge.
This allows you to answer many—though not all—of the following checklist questions early on:
What is the value of the land and property?
Is this property even financially feasible?
What additional costs can be expected?
Are there structural issues that may require more detailed investigations?
Are there any legal rights or encumbrances (e.g., access or utility easements)?
Are all necessary documents available (land register extract, cadastral map, zoning plan, etc.)?
An expert protects you from unpredictable risks and helps correctly assess the value of a property. Appraisals are important for protection against unexpected defects and damages, and to avoid misjudging the building fabric, especially in older properties. In addition, some lending institutions—also for your protection—require a valuation report!
From a purely rational perspective, yes; but … it is not that simple to reduce buying a property to mathematical calculations. The heart has a say, too.
At this stage, in my opinion, you can neither decide for nor against buying because only your heart is speaking. Ask the seller for a valuation report as described above or—if your heart won’t quiet down—have one prepared at your own expense. Only when you have a "condition report" in hand and know what renovation costs to expect can you weigh heart and mind to decide if buying the bungalow can balance both. With this valuation report, you can also approach your bank and discuss funding options with your trusted advisor; the government still supports energy-efficient renovations.
Not every banker values loans from government programs because they offer little to no commission and involve a lot of work. If your banker falls into this category, look for an independent financier near you and discuss the valuation report and your wishes with them; then your financing should rest on solid ground.
Regarding the fundamental decision between an existing property and new construction, as mentioned above, it is a very personal choice. There are factors a new build will never fulfill—many older properties undeniably have charm. On the other hand, it is a trade-off—is renovating something I want and can afford? If there is no end in sight for renovation—though older buildings can be excellently upgraded to the latest energy standards—the mind should take precedence. If the costs are foreseeable—ultimately it will always cost about as much as a new build—it certainly is worth considering preserving the charm.
Kind regards
pobeam schrieb:
So now we are asking ourselves: is it still worthwhile given today’s energy costs to buy such a house without deducting the total renovation costs (even if you might not carry them out) from the purchase price? The asking price for this property is around 210,000 euros, which seemed quite expensive to us from the start. We do assume, however, that the final purchase price will be somewhat lower.
I always tell my children "believe what you want in church"
In any case, before making a final purchasing decision, you should involve an expert who can assess the location and condition of the building—unless such a report is already provided by the sellers. Additionally, this expert can independently determine the so-called market value of the property including all buildings. This provides a solid basis for later price negotiations. The property appraisal will address, among other things, legal burdens on the property (such as usufruct or utility easements) as well as structural damages and estimate the costs of their remediation. This way, you know what financial obligations might arise even after the purchase. Furthermore, an architect can realistically assess the renovation and refurbishment needs and support you later during these works with their specialist knowledge.
This allows you to answer many—though not all—of the following checklist questions early on:
What is the value of the land and property?
Is this property even financially feasible?
What additional costs can be expected?
Are there structural issues that may require more detailed investigations?
Are there any legal rights or encumbrances (e.g., access or utility easements)?
Are all necessary documents available (land register extract, cadastral map, zoning plan, etc.)?
An expert protects you from unpredictable risks and helps correctly assess the value of a property. Appraisals are important for protection against unexpected defects and damages, and to avoid misjudging the building fabric, especially in older properties. In addition, some lending institutions—also for your protection—require a valuation report!
pobeam schrieb:
Is it more reasonable to build new?
From a purely rational perspective, yes; but … it is not that simple to reduce buying a property to mathematical calculations. The heart has a say, too.
At this stage, in my opinion, you can neither decide for nor against buying because only your heart is speaking. Ask the seller for a valuation report as described above or—if your heart won’t quiet down—have one prepared at your own expense. Only when you have a "condition report" in hand and know what renovation costs to expect can you weigh heart and mind to decide if buying the bungalow can balance both. With this valuation report, you can also approach your bank and discuss funding options with your trusted advisor; the government still supports energy-efficient renovations.
Not every banker values loans from government programs because they offer little to no commission and involve a lot of work. If your banker falls into this category, look for an independent financier near you and discuss the valuation report and your wishes with them; then your financing should rest on solid ground.
Regarding the fundamental decision between an existing property and new construction, as mentioned above, it is a very personal choice. There are factors a new build will never fulfill—many older properties undeniably have charm. On the other hand, it is a trade-off—is renovating something I want and can afford? If there is no end in sight for renovation—though older buildings can be excellently upgraded to the latest energy standards—the mind should take precedence. If the costs are foreseeable—ultimately it will always cost about as much as a new build—it certainly is worth considering preserving the charm.
Kind regards
Thank you for your reply!
Of course, we don’t rely solely on our own impressions and thoughts. In two days, we will visit the house together with a friend who is an architect. He might be able to give us more precise insights.
I do think it’s quite a challenge to spend the same amount as for a new build. As you rightly said, at the moment we are still somewhat influenced by our first impressions, especially regarding the location and the layout. We can clearly imagine what could be done with it! It’s hard to stay completely objective. Somehow, you keep looking for reasons that support the decision rather than against it. But when it comes to the price, reality eventually kicks in.
Let’s see what the architect says. I think around 180,000 (approximately $180,000) would be justified. But I doubt they will go that low. I hope we can gather enough arguments to convince them!
And if it doesn’t work out, we can handle that too. Actually, if we go for a new build, we would prefer a house in the Tyrolean chalet style. That wouldn’t really be the case here.
Of course, we don’t rely solely on our own impressions and thoughts. In two days, we will visit the house together with a friend who is an architect. He might be able to give us more precise insights.
I do think it’s quite a challenge to spend the same amount as for a new build. As you rightly said, at the moment we are still somewhat influenced by our first impressions, especially regarding the location and the layout. We can clearly imagine what could be done with it! It’s hard to stay completely objective. Somehow, you keep looking for reasons that support the decision rather than against it. But when it comes to the price, reality eventually kicks in.
Let’s see what the architect says. I think around 180,000 (approximately $180,000) would be justified. But I doubt they will go that low. I hope we can gather enough arguments to convince them!
And if it doesn’t work out, we can handle that too. Actually, if we go for a new build, we would prefer a house in the Tyrolean chalet style. That wouldn’t really be the case here.
Similar topics