Hello dear house building forum,
After reading here for a while, I would now like to ask the forum a question.
Our construction project is slowly gaining momentum, and our plans are becoming more concrete. I understand that discussing the pros and cons of a heating system without the relevant calculations does not allow for an accurate assessment. However, I am also interested in hearing practical experiences.
Our situation: we are planning a single-family house with a living area of 185 sqm (1,991 sq ft). We have decided on Poroton T8MW from Wienerberger as the building material, with a wall thickness of 42.5 cm (17 inches).
For the heating system, we had basically settled on a heat pump, since, for example, there is no gas connection available. We were therefore considering either an air-to-water heat pump combined with a hydronic (water-based) fireplace or a ground-source (geothermal) heat pump. In the cost estimates we received, both systems were fairly close in price.
Now, however, our architect has proposed a completely different system, which he considers more affordable and has also used in his 12-year-old new build.
This system includes a solar panel installation. To support this, a hydronic fireplace is installed, and as a backup, a small instantaneous water heater (tankless water heater). In addition, a ventilation system with heat recovery is installed.
I would therefore be interested to know if anyone in the forum has experience with this type of system or how it compares purely in terms of components to a heat pump.
After reading here for a while, I would now like to ask the forum a question.
Our construction project is slowly gaining momentum, and our plans are becoming more concrete. I understand that discussing the pros and cons of a heating system without the relevant calculations does not allow for an accurate assessment. However, I am also interested in hearing practical experiences.
Our situation: we are planning a single-family house with a living area of 185 sqm (1,991 sq ft). We have decided on Poroton T8MW from Wienerberger as the building material, with a wall thickness of 42.5 cm (17 inches).
For the heating system, we had basically settled on a heat pump, since, for example, there is no gas connection available. We were therefore considering either an air-to-water heat pump combined with a hydronic (water-based) fireplace or a ground-source (geothermal) heat pump. In the cost estimates we received, both systems were fairly close in price.
Now, however, our architect has proposed a completely different system, which he considers more affordable and has also used in his 12-year-old new build.
This system includes a solar panel installation. To support this, a hydronic fireplace is installed, and as a backup, a small instantaneous water heater (tankless water heater). In addition, a ventilation system with heat recovery is installed.
I would therefore be interested to know if anyone in the forum has experience with this type of system or how it compares purely in terms of components to a heat pump.
Hello,
no one would deny that the system described by your architect works. However, it always comes down to cost-effectiveness, so that you are not only satisfied with the heating performance (which almost any system can deliver) but also with your budget. Unfortunately, assessments from others rarely help with this, even though they can often be useful for initial sorting.
Therefore, I would recommend that you definitely obtain a calculation comparing the systems before making further decisions, because this concerns your specific situation and not “comparable” reference projects.
Best regards,
Erik
no one would deny that the system described by your architect works. However, it always comes down to cost-effectiveness, so that you are not only satisfied with the heating performance (which almost any system can deliver) but also with your budget. Unfortunately, assessments from others rarely help with this, even though they can often be useful for initial sorting.
Therefore, I would recommend that you definitely obtain a calculation comparing the systems before making further decisions, because this concerns your specific situation and not “comparable” reference projects.
Best regards,
Erik
B
Bauexperte24 Jun 2013 12:11Hello Jürgen,
It is not very productive to resort to sarcasm; it does not help the users who are following along here... perhaps it was just a momentary gut feeling, which can sometimes be useful after all. 😉
I am also puzzled that as a building surveyor and a full-time carpenter you “also” provide energy consulting. I am not a fan of having a “jack of all trades” approach, since each profession alone requires a huge effort if one wants to stay up to date and remain credible.
€uro is – as can be verified – often in conflict with most of the energy consultants posting here (quite a few are part-time energy consultants); he will have paid his dues… as I have, by the way, and probably all good service providers as well. We have also disagreed several times. However, one thing I cannot accuse him of is lacking balance and expertise in his arguments.
So don’t withdraw sulking into your shell, but take a stand and keep engaging for the users here. THAT is after all the purpose of this forum!
Best regards, Bauexperte
Wegener SV schrieb:
€uro, you really are something! What you say is completely off-topic, but anyway, I am the bad guy and you the hero.
A factual discussion with you seems pointless to me.
I will no longer participate in the discussion, as I have more important things to do.
Have fun, Mr. Expert €uro.
It is not very productive to resort to sarcasm; it does not help the users who are following along here... perhaps it was just a momentary gut feeling, which can sometimes be useful after all. 😉
I am also puzzled that as a building surveyor and a full-time carpenter you “also” provide energy consulting. I am not a fan of having a “jack of all trades” approach, since each profession alone requires a huge effort if one wants to stay up to date and remain credible.
€uro is – as can be verified – often in conflict with most of the energy consultants posting here (quite a few are part-time energy consultants); he will have paid his dues… as I have, by the way, and probably all good service providers as well. We have also disagreed several times. However, one thing I cannot accuse him of is lacking balance and expertise in his arguments.
So don’t withdraw sulking into your shell, but take a stand and keep engaging for the users here. THAT is after all the purpose of this forum!
Best regards, Bauexperte
The main issue here is that €uro gives the impression of primarily trying to promote his own service, which is basically fine, but almost every topic in this area is used to start a fundamental debate. As a result, the information the questioner receives is essentially zero.
I still believe that a knowledgeable energy consultant with the appropriate experience is definitely capable of making a reasonably reliable statement, even if not down to every last detail, about whether a system of the described scale is suitable for a single-family home or not. For example, in another thread, I learned very enlightening information from €uro based on two cases showing that a solar system often does not come close to the promised performance. This has reinforced my previous stance on these systems.
Currently, I tend to favor a ground-source heat pump, which, although more expensive to install, I expect to offer the greatest long-term planning reliability in terms of energy consumption.
I still believe that a knowledgeable energy consultant with the appropriate experience is definitely capable of making a reasonably reliable statement, even if not down to every last detail, about whether a system of the described scale is suitable for a single-family home or not. For example, in another thread, I learned very enlightening information from €uro based on two cases showing that a solar system often does not come close to the promised performance. This has reinforced my previous stance on these systems.
Currently, I tend to favor a ground-source heat pump, which, although more expensive to install, I expect to offer the greatest long-term planning reliability in terms of energy consumption.
rodnex schrieb:
...., but almost every topic in this area is used to start a fundamental discussion. The information the questioner receives is therefore practically zero. This is usually due to insufficient or unclear data. The expectation of some that a comprehensive or reliable answer will follow immediately after the question is generally unrealistic. Forums can not replace professional advice or design/dimensioning. At best, they can provide suggestions or guidance.
rodnex schrieb:
....I still believe that a skilled energy consultant with appropriate experience is indeed able to provide a, if not fully detailed, reliable statement on whether a system of the described scale is suitable for a single-family house or not. Laypersons can comment or answer almost anything, but when dealing professionally with these matters, it becomes critical because specific follow-up questions arise.
Nothing is more unpleasant than having to correct a premature statement afterwards.
Anyone with some insight into the overall context understands the interaction of details with each other (building, climate location, system technology, user behavior...) as well as the initially unknown influence on a possible final outcome.
Through expert work, I have encountered quite a few poorly implemented systems. Apart from exceptions, the problem is usually a lack of, insufficient, or incorrect planning. Various execution deficiencies are usually added on top.
The assumption that initially missed issues can be compensated later by adjusting parameters, e.g., in the control system, is usually mistaken. Fundamental deficiencies can mostly no longer be corrected with reasonable effort!
Best regards