ᐅ Bungalow: Only two companies available— which one should I choose?
Created on: 24 Mar 2019 15:37
S
Schildkröte
Hello,
My partner and I would like to build a bungalow this year if possible. We have already purchased the plot, which is about 620sqm (6,673 sq ft).
We have visited several companies and have now narrowed it down to two options. One is a large company that, according to their statement, builds around 600 houses per year. The other is more like a site manager or project manager who has been building about 30 houses a year for 40 years, also according to his statement.
Our plan:
- Bungalow of 120-125sqm (1,292-1,345 sq ft) with an angled layout for a covered terrace facing southwest
- Standard hip roof
- Air-to-water heat pump heating system
- Double garage with an additional room about 6x9m (20x30 ft) behind it, two garage doors plus one door at the back, access to the utility room
- Underfloor heating
- Chimney for a future fireplace
- Electric roller shutters
- Fixed triple-glazed windows, colored on the outside and white on the inside
- Colored front door
- Rooms: 1 bedroom, 1 child’s room, 1 guest room, 1 utility room, kitchen, living room + dining area, bathroom with walk-in shower, guest bathroom with walk-in shower
- Sliding door from dining area to kitchen, and from hallway to living room
- Large balcony door to the terrace
About the large company:
- Bungalow approximately 125sqm (1,345 sq ft) living space with air-to-water heat pump and underfloor heating, KfW 70 standard
- 18cm (7 inch) reinforced concrete slab foundation
- 24cm (9.5 inch) hollow brick exterior walls plus insulation
- Interior walls are simple drywall; a friend will build double drywall and install the sliding door inside the wall
- Triple-glazed windows, colored outside and white inside; electric roller blinds made of PVC; granite window sills—all at additional cost
- Entrance door made of aluminum at extra cost
- Concrete long-life roof tiles, with a 30cm (12 inch) roof overhang for an additional fee
- Colored exterior finish
- Prefabricated concrete double garage 6x9m (20x30 ft) as an unheated garage, reportedly not frost-proof, with door leading to the utility room, walkable
A friend of ours works for this company and might be the drywall installer. We were told that without an immediate soil report from our plot, the price quoted is a kind of fixed price. It is contractually guaranteed that it will not exceed the offer. They also said it’s not very important where the air-to-water heat pump is located — even behind the house is possible, supposedly with no efficiency loss due to distance.
About the smaller company:
- Bungalow approximately 120sqm (1,292 sq ft) living space with air-to-water heat pump and underfloor heating, KfW 55 standard
- Foundation type unknown
- 36.5cm (14 inch) exterior walls without insulation
- Interior walls presumably 11cm (4.3 inch) masonry
- Triple-glazed windows, colored outside and white inside; insulated aluminum electric roller blinds; granite window sills
- Colored aluminum entrance door
- Colored clay roof tiles; roof overhang unknown
- Colored exterior plaster finish
- Double garage 6x11m (20x36 ft) as a heated garage, frost-proof, fireproof door to the utility room, walkable, empty conduits for photovoltaic system routed into utility room
- Controlled mechanical ventilation system
With this company, only a rough price was given so far; everything needs to be calculated, including plans from the architect, etc. The project manager oversees everything personally, approves all work, and only after his OK do the companies receive payment. He knows and works with these companies regularly. He says he only offers what he would buy himself and believes in. Many things included in this price are extras with the other company. The supply lines are kept as short as possible to keep costs down. The air-to-water heat pump will be installed at the front of the house.
DIY work is welcome and can be inspected and approved by him later. They advised against installing a fireplace because the chimney sweep costs about €200 plus some tax.
As we understand it, we would need to sign a contract for the project upfront even though the final costs are unclear until after the soil report, architect work, and detailed calculation. However, the price would then be guaranteed 100%, with no further costs expected. He charges 2.5% of the total project value.
Now we are uncertain. One company says 24cm (9.5 inch) exterior walls with insulation are sufficient, and drywall interior walls are fine.
The other company says 36.5cm (14 inch) exterior walls are good, and masonry interior walls are better than drywall.
What is the real difference between an unheated garage and a heated garage? The heated garage would obviously be better for plants that cannot tolerate frost.
What do you think? What should we definitely pay attention to? We would also really like to have brick cladding but this exceeds our budget; it is a possible upgrade for later.
Sorry for the long text.
Regards,
Schildkröte
My partner and I would like to build a bungalow this year if possible. We have already purchased the plot, which is about 620sqm (6,673 sq ft).
We have visited several companies and have now narrowed it down to two options. One is a large company that, according to their statement, builds around 600 houses per year. The other is more like a site manager or project manager who has been building about 30 houses a year for 40 years, also according to his statement.
Our plan:
- Bungalow of 120-125sqm (1,292-1,345 sq ft) with an angled layout for a covered terrace facing southwest
- Standard hip roof
- Air-to-water heat pump heating system
- Double garage with an additional room about 6x9m (20x30 ft) behind it, two garage doors plus one door at the back, access to the utility room
- Underfloor heating
- Chimney for a future fireplace
- Electric roller shutters
- Fixed triple-glazed windows, colored on the outside and white on the inside
- Colored front door
- Rooms: 1 bedroom, 1 child’s room, 1 guest room, 1 utility room, kitchen, living room + dining area, bathroom with walk-in shower, guest bathroom with walk-in shower
- Sliding door from dining area to kitchen, and from hallway to living room
- Large balcony door to the terrace
About the large company:
- Bungalow approximately 125sqm (1,345 sq ft) living space with air-to-water heat pump and underfloor heating, KfW 70 standard
- 18cm (7 inch) reinforced concrete slab foundation
- 24cm (9.5 inch) hollow brick exterior walls plus insulation
- Interior walls are simple drywall; a friend will build double drywall and install the sliding door inside the wall
- Triple-glazed windows, colored outside and white inside; electric roller blinds made of PVC; granite window sills—all at additional cost
- Entrance door made of aluminum at extra cost
- Concrete long-life roof tiles, with a 30cm (12 inch) roof overhang for an additional fee
- Colored exterior finish
- Prefabricated concrete double garage 6x9m (20x30 ft) as an unheated garage, reportedly not frost-proof, with door leading to the utility room, walkable
A friend of ours works for this company and might be the drywall installer. We were told that without an immediate soil report from our plot, the price quoted is a kind of fixed price. It is contractually guaranteed that it will not exceed the offer. They also said it’s not very important where the air-to-water heat pump is located — even behind the house is possible, supposedly with no efficiency loss due to distance.
About the smaller company:
- Bungalow approximately 120sqm (1,292 sq ft) living space with air-to-water heat pump and underfloor heating, KfW 55 standard
- Foundation type unknown
- 36.5cm (14 inch) exterior walls without insulation
- Interior walls presumably 11cm (4.3 inch) masonry
- Triple-glazed windows, colored outside and white inside; insulated aluminum electric roller blinds; granite window sills
- Colored aluminum entrance door
- Colored clay roof tiles; roof overhang unknown
- Colored exterior plaster finish
- Double garage 6x11m (20x36 ft) as a heated garage, frost-proof, fireproof door to the utility room, walkable, empty conduits for photovoltaic system routed into utility room
- Controlled mechanical ventilation system
With this company, only a rough price was given so far; everything needs to be calculated, including plans from the architect, etc. The project manager oversees everything personally, approves all work, and only after his OK do the companies receive payment. He knows and works with these companies regularly. He says he only offers what he would buy himself and believes in. Many things included in this price are extras with the other company. The supply lines are kept as short as possible to keep costs down. The air-to-water heat pump will be installed at the front of the house.
DIY work is welcome and can be inspected and approved by him later. They advised against installing a fireplace because the chimney sweep costs about €200 plus some tax.
As we understand it, we would need to sign a contract for the project upfront even though the final costs are unclear until after the soil report, architect work, and detailed calculation. However, the price would then be guaranteed 100%, with no further costs expected. He charges 2.5% of the total project value.
Now we are uncertain. One company says 24cm (9.5 inch) exterior walls with insulation are sufficient, and drywall interior walls are fine.
The other company says 36.5cm (14 inch) exterior walls are good, and masonry interior walls are better than drywall.
What is the real difference between an unheated garage and a heated garage? The heated garage would obviously be better for plants that cannot tolerate frost.
What do you think? What should we definitely pay attention to? We would also really like to have brick cladding but this exceeds our budget; it is a possible upgrade for later.
Sorry for the long text.
Regards,
Schildkröte
Mottenhausen schrieb:
Sorry, you really can’t make such a general statement. A 24cm (9.5 inch) hollow brick plus 12cm (5 inch) external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) definitely isn’t cheaper than a 36cm (14 inch) monolithic wall structure (calling that “cheap construction” is already wrong). A multi-layer wall construction offers better thermal insulation with the same brick type and total wall thickness, so it’s functionally superior.
I don’t understand the arguments against ETICS anymore: if you can’t mount a mailbox on it, then you need to hire a craftsman who can. And even leaning a bicycle against it won’t cause holes. If a bike falls forcefully against a solid wall, the same damage wouldn’t just disappear. But this discussion has been had here a thousand times. It’s always the same with our house: “Why are you building an Efficiency House 55 with ETICS, nobody needs that,” and then when it comes to the floor plan: “The open spaces and rooms... you’ll never get that warm... think about the heating costs.” And when both arguments have been made, I just repeat them and answer: “See what I mean?”See what I mean? No one spoke against ETICS here, nor was anyone questioning KfW standards. We also have ETICS. Even though I still believe it’s the cheapest way to meet energy-saving regulations, I didn’t say anything against it. If you stick with it, however, you do face many disadvantages or extra work if you want long-term quality, such as using mineral plaster or dealing with algae. Also, you have fewer options for attaching building components to the house. Of course it’s possible, but you can’t just install an awning or similar fixture easily.
And combined with
Schildkröte schrieb:
- interior walls simply drywall,Schildkröte schrieb:
everything extra chargeSchildkröte schrieb:
roof overhang 30cm (12 inch) extra charge… the builder might be one who offers very low base prices but charges for every single screw. That’s no problem if you’re okay with a modular system for house construction. But much is left out that a healthy construction specification would normally include. I know exactly what that means, as this happened to us as well. If we didn’t know about something, we didn’t ask for it and later felt frustrated.
Nordlys schrieb:
Sure, a big builder offers customers good houses, but a small builder can do things the big one can’t.Exactly.
Schildkröte schrieb:
What’s included with the smaller company, I can’t say, those details weren’t discussed, it was just about the whole house and our ideas at first.Ask for the detailed construction specifications to compare.
Schildkröte schrieb:
For example, only three sockets were calculated in the kitchen; he said we should talk to the electricians who would then send us a separate invoice for all the extras, like additional sockets, network, satellite, etc.Yes, that’s possible. But those are costs you’ll have to pay.
Schildkröte schrieb:
I just can’t really imagine it will be cheaper; they might give you a hefty bill, and you either pay or tough luck, right?Unlikely, but possible.
Schildkröte schrieb:
He also advised us to take aluminum window sills and replace them with granite during construction or just leave the aluminum in place. Some others said it’s very noisy in rain or hail.What you want for your utility room is ultimately your decision. Some say yes, others say no.
Schildkröte schrieb:
For the tile price, both were at €15 with the bigger company, but the tile dimensions were “prescribed” as well as the surface finish….
15€ is not much.Mottenhausen feels offended because I described the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) as inferior to monolithic construction. I stand by that. I know many buildings with ETICS; they are managed by our administration. They are warm, yes, but the facades are delicate and prone to algae growth.
Often, due to rushed workmanship, the appearance is unsatisfactory; the pattern of the insulation boards shows through the render, and neglected corners lead to mold inside.
For this reason, I would always build monolithically. The wall is genuinely solid. The render is uniform, smooth, algae is not an issue, and mounting fixtures is easy. The only limitation is realistic thermal insulation, which realistically reaches the level of energy standard KfW 55 or more likely KfW 70. But that is perfectly sufficient for me. We insulate excessively, sealing everything airtight, barely able to breathe inside the house, and then buy controlled mechanical ventilation systems costing tens of thousands. It's a flawed system. And most builders have a high school diploma and don’t understand this. K.
Often, due to rushed workmanship, the appearance is unsatisfactory; the pattern of the insulation boards shows through the render, and neglected corners lead to mold inside.
For this reason, I would always build monolithically. The wall is genuinely solid. The render is uniform, smooth, algae is not an issue, and mounting fixtures is easy. The only limitation is realistic thermal insulation, which realistically reaches the level of energy standard KfW 55 or more likely KfW 70. But that is perfectly sufficient for me. We insulate excessively, sealing everything airtight, barely able to breathe inside the house, and then buy controlled mechanical ventilation systems costing tens of thousands. It's a flawed system. And most builders have a high school diploma and don’t understand this. K.
Nordlys schrieb:
The monolithic wall construction is also better. It doesn’t require EPS, nor do you have that hollow exterior wall that can get damaged if you accidentally hit it with a bicycle handlebar and where it’s difficult to properly install a mailbox.Nordlys schrieb:
They are warm, yes, but the facades are delicate and prone to algae growth.Monolithic construction is naturally better than a split exterior wall.
However, it doesn’t get damaged from a bicycle handlebar hit, nor is it true that you can’t mount a mailbox on it.
It is more prone to algae growth, yes.
You are both right and wrong.
Your examples are incorrect, and Motorenhausen is turning your (incorrect) factual statements into something completely different.
But that doesn’t make EIFS better or worse.
Do you two have some kind of personal conflict here, or what?
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