Hello everyone,
finally, we have reached an important step… the plot is signed for.
We want to build with an architect and already have some ideas about what we like and what we don’t.
We definitely want to give the architect the opportunity to apply their expertise regarding the floor plan… maybe they can convince us.
But if not, we are currently (almost) quite happy with this self-drawn floor plan.
A few key facts…
Plot size: 660 sqm (about 7100 sq ft), floor area ratio 0.4, no slope, approximately 26m x 25m (85 ft x 82 ft)
Longest building side allowed: max. 15m (about 49 ft)
L-shaped bungalow with covered terrace (southwest side)
We want to build with a basement. This should have windows with natural daylight behind the garage on the east side. There will be 2–3 living rooms down there (playroom, hobby room, later for the kids or grandparents if necessary).
The roof will not be converted into a living space — 20-22° (degrees) pitch, hip roof, for aesthetic reasons.
We know that a basement is more expensive than a second floor, etc. The budget is roughly 650,000–700,000 (currency).
Utility room, laundry room, sauna, etc. will all be located in the basement since there is enough space. 🙂
Now to the floor plan:
We like an open design with a large entrance area.
What we like about this floor plan:
Children’s area separated from parents
Connection from the garage with access to the storage room and basement
Access from kitchen and living room to the terrace possible
Master bedroom with direct view of the garden on the southeast side (in summer the shutters are closed anyway)
Children’s rooms with windows facing west, slightly southwest.
Open questions…
Are the children’s rooms too narrow at almost 3m (about 10 ft)?
Is the living room too narrow at almost 4.5m (about 15 ft)?
The L-shape at the terrace is about 3m (10 ft) deep — here we could possibly adjust a bit to enlarge the children’s rooms.
My wife doesn’t like that the kitchen is visible directly from the entrance area.
(I prefer the kitchen visibility over the living room couch). What do you think is better or worse?
The kitchen window is on the south side, possibly too much sun… maybe we should add an awning if needed.
I can’t fit a second toilet elsewhere without making the children’s rooms even smaller… so it will remain a guest toilet for the parents.
Is a door between the entrance area and the living area for a windbreak useful, or unnecessary? (We have underfloor heating.)
(Maybe a hidden interior door, but I’m unsure what happens if it gets damaged.)
The floor area ratio will be tight… 15m x 15m = 225 sqm (about 11,200 sq ft) + garage + driveway… we might need to reduce the width a bit.
660 sqm x 0.4 = 264 sqm (about 2,840 sq ft).
I have seen many floor plans here… wishes and practicality have to match somewhere.
I’m really curious about the experts’ opinions…
Is it rubbish or usable?
Thanks
finally, we have reached an important step… the plot is signed for.
We want to build with an architect and already have some ideas about what we like and what we don’t.
We definitely want to give the architect the opportunity to apply their expertise regarding the floor plan… maybe they can convince us.
But if not, we are currently (almost) quite happy with this self-drawn floor plan.
A few key facts…
Plot size: 660 sqm (about 7100 sq ft), floor area ratio 0.4, no slope, approximately 26m x 25m (85 ft x 82 ft)
Longest building side allowed: max. 15m (about 49 ft)
L-shaped bungalow with covered terrace (southwest side)
We want to build with a basement. This should have windows with natural daylight behind the garage on the east side. There will be 2–3 living rooms down there (playroom, hobby room, later for the kids or grandparents if necessary).
The roof will not be converted into a living space — 20-22° (degrees) pitch, hip roof, for aesthetic reasons.
We know that a basement is more expensive than a second floor, etc. The budget is roughly 650,000–700,000 (currency).
Utility room, laundry room, sauna, etc. will all be located in the basement since there is enough space. 🙂
Now to the floor plan:
We like an open design with a large entrance area.
What we like about this floor plan:
Children’s area separated from parents
Connection from the garage with access to the storage room and basement
Access from kitchen and living room to the terrace possible
Master bedroom with direct view of the garden on the southeast side (in summer the shutters are closed anyway)
Children’s rooms with windows facing west, slightly southwest.
Open questions…
Are the children’s rooms too narrow at almost 3m (about 10 ft)?
Is the living room too narrow at almost 4.5m (about 15 ft)?
The L-shape at the terrace is about 3m (10 ft) deep — here we could possibly adjust a bit to enlarge the children’s rooms.
My wife doesn’t like that the kitchen is visible directly from the entrance area.
(I prefer the kitchen visibility over the living room couch). What do you think is better or worse?
The kitchen window is on the south side, possibly too much sun… maybe we should add an awning if needed.
I can’t fit a second toilet elsewhere without making the children’s rooms even smaller… so it will remain a guest toilet for the parents.
Is a door between the entrance area and the living area for a windbreak useful, or unnecessary? (We have underfloor heating.)
(Maybe a hidden interior door, but I’m unsure what happens if it gets damaged.)
The floor area ratio will be tight… 15m x 15m = 225 sqm (about 11,200 sq ft) + garage + driveway… we might need to reduce the width a bit.
660 sqm x 0.4 = 264 sqm (about 2,840 sq ft).
I have seen many floor plans here… wishes and practicality have to match somewhere.
I’m really curious about the experts’ opinions…
Is it rubbish or usable?
Thanks
I
Iotafreak16 Apr 2021 12:20ypg schrieb:
No, the wishes are clearly defined and also feasible.
However, no one here understands, and it is not defined as your wish, that everything and everyone passes by the children's bedrooms, not allowing them peace in the evening. That they are practically exposed to the open-plan entrance/living area, and when they need to use the bathroom, they have to go past every visitor and also out towards the street, thus having no privacy or intimacy.
You are not the only client with your wishes, but you are certainly not one who implements them well. I have to agree..
Ah, I love topics about bungalows.
We also have a bungalow (I’m attaching the floor plan). My lessons learned:
1. Separate children’s area: Forget about that in a bungalow! With the single-story design, you’ll never manage to separate it effectively. The rooms are simply within calling distance. And I must admit, especially with young children, I actually love that. My kids learned to play alone in their rooms from as early as one year old because they could see me moving around the house. Plus, there’s the advantage that you can easily call out from the kitchen later on. However, since we don’t want the kids to hear when we’re active in bed, we placed the bathroom in between.
2. In a bungalow, never place the main bathroom within sight of the living room door. When my husband has guests, I want to be able to slip into the bathroom unseen, even in a bra. We weren’t so considerate with the kids’ bathroom, but that was a selfish choice.
3. Basement: I get it, but really consider whether it might be better to finish the attic instead (we have a half-hipped roof). You get storage space, can move a child’s room there if needed, guests can sleep there, and so on. So in the end, you’re basically building a single-family home the classic way. You can separate the upper floor from the rest of the house just like you can a basement.
4. Don’t make the hallway too narrow, but also not too large. In a bungalow, I find the hallway quite important since all paths cross there. I don’t even know how many times a day I walk through the hallway. Since it’s so central, it should also feel “cozy.”
5. With most bungalows, you can remove walls as you like. For example, we don’t have a single load-bearing interior wall. Under the roof, we currently have our storage room and we climb up via a ladder. Once the kids move out, we’ll put in a proper staircase for one room and enlarge the other a bit. Then we’ll have a guest room and a staircase suitable for older age going upstairs. That means, if needed, you can add or move necessary walls and take out unnecessary ones.
I don’t like those maze-like bungalows. This type of house represents closeness and togetherness for me. You see everything, hear everything (to my son’s annoyance: “Mom, how did you know I was secretly watching the tablet?”). You need to want and like that. If you want to separate everything from each other, at least put the children’s rooms upstairs. That might be a bit inconvenient with very young kids, but by age three it’s no problem at all.
We also have a bungalow (I’m attaching the floor plan). My lessons learned:
1. Separate children’s area: Forget about that in a bungalow! With the single-story design, you’ll never manage to separate it effectively. The rooms are simply within calling distance. And I must admit, especially with young children, I actually love that. My kids learned to play alone in their rooms from as early as one year old because they could see me moving around the house. Plus, there’s the advantage that you can easily call out from the kitchen later on. However, since we don’t want the kids to hear when we’re active in bed, we placed the bathroom in between.
2. In a bungalow, never place the main bathroom within sight of the living room door. When my husband has guests, I want to be able to slip into the bathroom unseen, even in a bra. We weren’t so considerate with the kids’ bathroom, but that was a selfish choice.
3. Basement: I get it, but really consider whether it might be better to finish the attic instead (we have a half-hipped roof). You get storage space, can move a child’s room there if needed, guests can sleep there, and so on. So in the end, you’re basically building a single-family home the classic way. You can separate the upper floor from the rest of the house just like you can a basement.
4. Don’t make the hallway too narrow, but also not too large. In a bungalow, I find the hallway quite important since all paths cross there. I don’t even know how many times a day I walk through the hallway. Since it’s so central, it should also feel “cozy.”
5. With most bungalows, you can remove walls as you like. For example, we don’t have a single load-bearing interior wall. Under the roof, we currently have our storage room and we climb up via a ladder. Once the kids move out, we’ll put in a proper staircase for one room and enlarge the other a bit. Then we’ll have a guest room and a staircase suitable for older age going upstairs. That means, if needed, you can add or move necessary walls and take out unnecessary ones.
I don’t like those maze-like bungalows. This type of house represents closeness and togetherness for me. You see everything, hear everything (to my son’s annoyance: “Mom, how did you know I was secretly watching the tablet?”). You need to want and like that. If you want to separate everything from each other, at least put the children’s rooms upstairs. That might be a bit inconvenient with very young kids, but by age three it’s no problem at all.
You have correctly recognized that the needs for a house change with different stages of life. You just haven’t yet realized that:
1. Accommodating all these varying needs in a single house is only possible with inefficiency and many compromises.
2. The rule that you build a house only once in your life was never written down, let alone enacted.
This would also contradict the wise saying that the first house is built for an enemy, the second for a friend, and only the third for yourself.
1. Accommodating all these varying needs in a single house is only possible with inefficiency and many compromises.
2. The rule that you build a house only once in your life was never written down, let alone enacted.
This would also contradict the wise saying that the first house is built for an enemy, the second for a friend, and only the third for yourself.
I
Iotafreak16 Apr 2021 13:40Evolith schrieb:
Ah, I love topics about bungalows.
We also have a bungalow (I’m attaching the floor plan). My lessons learned:
1. Separate children’s area: Forget about that in a bungalow! Because of the single-story design, you’ll never be able to separate it effectively. The rooms are simply within calling distance. And I have to admit, especially with young children, I love it. My kids already learned at 1 year old to play alone in their rooms because they saw me working around the house. Another advantage is that later you can shout out from the kitchen. But since we also don’t want the kids to hear us when we’re active in the bedroom, we placed the bathroom in between.
2. In a bungalow, never put the main bathroom within view of the living room door. When my husband has guests, I want to be able to slip into the bathroom in my bra unnoticed. We weren’t so considerate with the kids’ bathroom, but that was us being selfish.
3. Basement: I understand where you’re coming from, but seriously consider whether you might prefer to develop the attic (we have a half-hipped roof). There you have storage space, you can temporarily relocate a child if needed, guests can sleep there, etc. So basically build a single-family house in the classic way. You can separate the upper floor just like the basement.
4. Hallway not too tight but also not too big. I find the hallway quite important in a bungalow because all paths cross there. I have no idea how many times a day I walk through it. Since it’s so central, it should also feel “cozy.”
5. In most bungalows, you can remove walls as you like. For example, we don’t have a single load-bearing interior wall. Currently, under the roof, we have our storage room and climb up via a ladder. Once the kids move out, one room will get a proper staircase and the other will be enlarged a bit. Then we will have a guest room and an age-appropriate staircase going up.
That also means you can add or relocate walls if necessary and remove unnecessary ones.
I don’t like those awkward, compartmentalized bungalows. For me, this house type embodies closeness and togetherness. You see everything, hear everything (to the dismay of my son: “Mom, how did you know I was secretly watching the tablet?”). You have to want and enjoy that. If you want to separate everything from each other, at least put the children’s rooms upstairs. That’s a bit inconvenient for very small children, but by age 3 that’s usually no problem anymore. Wow, thank you very much for your input...
I actually really like your floor plan... What are the dimensions of the house? Or do you happen to have the floor plan with measurements?
Where is the TV placed in your home? We find 20DN visually interesting... which is why finishing the basement isn’t practical... The floor plan fits our ideas really well... Thanks for that... Do you have a fully covered terrace?
Iotafreak schrieb:
Wow, thank you very much for your input...
I actually like your floor plan a lot... What are the dimensions of the house? Or do you, Event, have the floor plan with measurements?
Where is the TV located in your home? We find the 20DN visually interesting... so an expansion isn’t really practical... The floor plan really fits our ideas quite well... Thanks for that... do you have a fully covered terrace? Gladly. I have attached the complete plan.
The TV is mounted on the partition wall between the kitchen and living area. A small downside: during the day, the sun shines directly on it. That doesn’t bother me much, but my husband always lowers the roller blind on the large window. A good TV compensates for this quite well.
We initially wanted a low roof pitch. Due to a planning error (a hip roof was not permitted), we had to switch to a clipped hip roof, which required a significantly larger attic conversion. Now I have to say, I like it. We have “headroom” up there, and the house reminds me a bit of the reed-thatched coastal houses I really like.
The terrace is only about one-third covered. However, it is very large, measuring 5x9m (16x30 feet). In front of the bedroom window, we also plan to add a 5x5m (16x16 feet) covered area in the next few years.
What helped us a lot was to see a bungalow from the inside at least once. I still remember my grandparents’ bungalow—typical for the time with an endless hallway and very separated private areas. I always found that quite frustrating. If you ever travel through NRW, feel free to visit us 😉
Now, let’s take it really slowly… not that any of us didn’t understand already 😉
We never recommended “a second floor” to you!
Define basement! Isn’t a basement also a “floor”?
By the way, the correct term is “storeys” or “levels,” not “floors,” and there’s also the definition of a “half-storey”... but let’s get to the point:
So you are planning a ground floor plus basement, because a ground floor plus a finished attic equals two storeys, and ground floor plus basement also equals two storeys? 🤨
A staircase leading to the attic bothers you, but a staircase to the basement does not? 🤨
You put necessary rooms like laundry, utility room, and storage in another storey (basement), although that staircase may cause problems someday. 🤨
You create an argument that doesn’t really hold, since you plan two storeys anyway — which means stairs. When you’re older and possibly have knee issues at 50, that will be a problem.
Furthermore, you plan “2–3 rooms with daylight” in the basement. That means you want to build 2–3 living spaces in the basement, fully fitted with electricity, bathroom (there was something about parents mentioned) (-> sewage lifting system), heating, ventilation, proper daylight exposure, and a ceiling height that makes a basement room a living space, so it’s legally allowed and approved. You can only get daylight through special daylight shafts into a basement level, i.e., proper windows and extensive excavation. There are several options for this. However, all of them have in common that these windows are on the building’s exterior walls (since they are basement windows) and pose a safety risk for children playing in the garden (not to mention burglary protection).
So they must be properly secured, but still provide a second means of escape — fall protection and escape route from inside to outside.
All this turns a simple basement into a living basement.
That means: 180 square meters basement = 180,000€
180 square meters basement with living quality (I assume half of that since the utility room and laundry do not need finishing, but ceiling heights must be adjusted), so 90 square meters basement + 90 square meters living basement = 300,000€
The attic remains cold, but you have 180 square meters of space that no one sees since it disappears in the basement. Most of that space is not really needed anyway (180 for a basement is quite a lot), and if the kids throw parties down there, two rooms on the ground floor will suffer.
As I mentioned before, you’re not the first one to come up with the idea of a bungalow.
By your argument, it would be more logical to have your basement stairs lead upwards to the attic, because that already exists. Just skip the basement altogether.
The rooms that become necessary in old age or with knee problems can be planned on the ground floor as well (Remember: “We want everything ourselves on one level…”). A small utility room, laundry room next to the kitchen… all bungalow-style and all for you.
A room close to the parents useful for small children, then two rooms plus bathroom in the finished attic, which the kids can move into once they reach school age. The construction effort is minimal, probably around 50,000€. Windows that look into the sky rather than concrete shafts.
That would be a clear separation of spaces (children // parents). And when the kids grow up, the two rooms in the attic with 40 square meters won’t bother you if they remain unused, converted into a gym, or used by grandchildren for sleeping over. You still have your level, and what’s up top doesn’t get in the way.
Where is the catch now?
You invest 250,000€ more for less comfort, end up with a huge basement you might not be able to enter to do laundry in the worst case, have two empty rooms on the ground floor, and then think: I wish I had my utility and laundry room here instead…
Iotafreak schrieb:
Then you have the entire second floor completely unused...
We never recommended “a second floor” to you!
Iotafreak schrieb:
With the basement, we’d have more flexibility, since many rooms would be located there… also laundry room, etc…
Define basement! Isn’t a basement also a “floor”?
By the way, the correct term is “storeys” or “levels,” not “floors,” and there’s also the definition of a “half-storey”... but let’s get to the point:
So you are planning a ground floor plus basement, because a ground floor plus a finished attic equals two storeys, and ground floor plus basement also equals two storeys? 🤨
A staircase leading to the attic bothers you, but a staircase to the basement does not? 🤨
You put necessary rooms like laundry, utility room, and storage in another storey (basement), although that staircase may cause problems someday. 🤨
You create an argument that doesn’t really hold, since you plan two storeys anyway — which means stairs. When you’re older and possibly have knee issues at 50, that will be a problem.
Furthermore, you plan “2–3 rooms with daylight” in the basement. That means you want to build 2–3 living spaces in the basement, fully fitted with electricity, bathroom (there was something about parents mentioned) (-> sewage lifting system), heating, ventilation, proper daylight exposure, and a ceiling height that makes a basement room a living space, so it’s legally allowed and approved. You can only get daylight through special daylight shafts into a basement level, i.e., proper windows and extensive excavation. There are several options for this. However, all of them have in common that these windows are on the building’s exterior walls (since they are basement windows) and pose a safety risk for children playing in the garden (not to mention burglary protection).
So they must be properly secured, but still provide a second means of escape — fall protection and escape route from inside to outside.
All this turns a simple basement into a living basement.
That means: 180 square meters basement = 180,000€
180 square meters basement with living quality (I assume half of that since the utility room and laundry do not need finishing, but ceiling heights must be adjusted), so 90 square meters basement + 90 square meters living basement = 300,000€
The attic remains cold, but you have 180 square meters of space that no one sees since it disappears in the basement. Most of that space is not really needed anyway (180 for a basement is quite a lot), and if the kids throw parties down there, two rooms on the ground floor will suffer.
Iotafreak schrieb:
But with 2–3 daylight rooms, the kids would have places to retreat during their teenage years or later…
Iotafreak schrieb:
We want everything ourselves on one level…
As I mentioned before, you’re not the first one to come up with the idea of a bungalow.
By your argument, it would be more logical to have your basement stairs lead upwards to the attic, because that already exists. Just skip the basement altogether.
The rooms that become necessary in old age or with knee problems can be planned on the ground floor as well (Remember: “We want everything ourselves on one level…”). A small utility room, laundry room next to the kitchen… all bungalow-style and all for you.
A room close to the parents useful for small children, then two rooms plus bathroom in the finished attic, which the kids can move into once they reach school age. The construction effort is minimal, probably around 50,000€. Windows that look into the sky rather than concrete shafts.
That would be a clear separation of spaces (children // parents). And when the kids grow up, the two rooms in the attic with 40 square meters won’t bother you if they remain unused, converted into a gym, or used by grandchildren for sleeping over. You still have your level, and what’s up top doesn’t get in the way.
Where is the catch now?
You invest 250,000€ more for less comfort, end up with a huge basement you might not be able to enter to do laundry in the worst case, have two empty rooms on the ground floor, and then think: I wish I had my utility and laundry room here instead…
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