ᐅ Building on a Tight Budget: Is It Possible?

ypg schrieb:

Never change a running system 🙂

Unfortunately, in this case, it means a broken heating system after 10 years or even earlier with a heat pump.

Zaba12 schrieb:

There is a lot of hearsay going around here, resulting in little real knowledge being passed on. A floor heating system, when operated with low supply temperatures and a small hysteresis, is definitely not noticeably warm.

I know that our floor heating system is currently far from optimally installed and adjusted; however, everything was done by a certified heating specialist company!
The bathroom floor is currently warm, which I find cozy during winter, but somehow it mostly feels random – in the second bathroom, it’s often different. Sometimes it suddenly feels cold, which is less pleasant with tiles. When the sun comes out soon, I can only tolerate it during the day if I open all the windows wide, wasting expensive heat outside.

As a resident of a new build, I just want things to work and for ME to feel comfortable; temperatures are perceived very differently by different people, after all. For example, if all rooms always have roughly the same temperature, that is actually the opposite of comfort for me. And if I am also affected by the system’s inherent delay, that is almost a deal breaker for such a heating system.
I understand that 90% or more consider the supply temperature perfectly suitable, but for me, it remains a matter of pros and cons. Therefore, I would call floor heating a “standard” (because it is currently mostly installed) but definitely not a “must-have,” without which a comfortable living environment wouldn’t be possible.
After reading the countless, lengthy technical dramas here in the forum, it quickly became clear to me that I want it differently. If we had a gas connection on the street, that would have been the choice—probably without floor heating. The heat pumps, currently installed as the “standard,” fill even more forum pages and discussions elsewhere with problems because, unfortunately, specialists’ experience has not kept pace with the rapid technical developments, or the execution is simply done without enthusiasm. If I then build with a general contractor, someone installs something without my control, and I can only watch and hope... only to read later here that the system was poorly installed or configured.
@Alessandro seems to have put effort into his entire house, and when I read his thread, I understand how a builder feels frustrated when left more or less helpless.
What @Zaba12 writes above is certainly technically correct, but honestly, I personally have no desire at all to deal with all that. I buy a car to simply drive it, not to first complete a mechanic’s apprenticeship; I don’t care about terms like hysteresis or doodads when I just want it pleasantly warm. Just imagine having to deal with every trade that long and exhaustingly after moving in!
Sure, it was different for me “back then,” but now I can understand @Zaba12’s neighbor if he won’t want anything to do with it in the next five years either.
I don’t have a perfect solution either, but I want to point out that the currently installed “standard” does not satisfy everyone, fortunately, because we all think differently.
Nowadays, people often try to save time almost obsessively with fast motors on blinds, KNX automation, lighting without needing to switch it on: every second of life is optimized in time so that afterward, I spend hours most often frustrated in front of my heat pump or incorrectly designed floor heating system. So, savings are made at any cost.

pagoni2020 schrieb:

Sure, it used to be different for me "in the past," but by now I can understand @Zaba12’s neighbor if he has no interest in dealing with it for the next five years either.

Your specialized contractor has absolutely no interest or time to optimize your heating system. By optimization, I mean, among other things, reducing compressor starts—not just ensuring the heat pump operates efficiently. After the first (1) winter with the default settings and the ERRs, I had nearly 10,000 compressor starts. At around 100,000 starts, the heat pump’s compressor fails. This winter, after my optimization, I had only 560 starts.

By the way, my neighbor’s heat pump is now completely worn out after 5 years because he didn’t do anything.

...so go ahead and trust your default settings.

Joedreck schrieb:

It’s true that needs vary and underfloor heating isn’t ideal for everyone.
In my experience, however, it often comes down to old prejudices about cold feet, heat buildup, and so on. With the right settings, modern underfloor heating doesn’t have any of these issues.
What is indisputable is the inertia and the stove problem. You have to pay attention to certain things with a stove. The inertia is basically unavoidable.

I actually see the inertia as an advantage, as strange as that sounds. I don’t like it when the temperature in a room changes too quickly.
In the old house, we had much more temperature ping-pong during winter: heater up – now it’s too warm – window open – heater down – too cold – heater up again. That’s pure energy waste. Maybe I was just bad at finding the right setting, but we were always fiddling with the radiators, and I don’t miss that at all.

Otherwise, you hardly notice the underfloor heating. Our supply temperature is usually below 30°C (86°F). Since that is well below our body temperature, the floors don’t even feel especially warm.

Zaba12 schrieb:

Your specialist company has absolutely no interest or time to optimize your heating system.

That would definitely never be MY specialist company for new construction or any other matters!
Otherwise, maybe we could talk—but we keep misunderstanding each other.
If I buy a modern, expensive “must-have heating system,” I personally don’t even want to know what a “compressor, hysteresis, delta T” and all that stuff is about; I’ve read tons of terms in this context, and the thread I referenced reflects that quite well.
Sure, you have ERR and other (new) terms with different numbers of starts, but that requires extensive training on the topic—not just reading a manual like with a mixer. I want heating that works reliably and well on its own.

Again, just imagine having to think that much about every other trade or about structural engineering, window construction, concrete, wood, plaster... that would be impossible and extremely frustrating. The heating/heat pump topic and also underfloor heating require a lot of knowledge, and in the end, I often end up with mediocrity. I’ve even read here occasionally that builders were advised against certain optimizations because they would void the warranty.
If you personally enjoy that or at least don’t mind it, then you’re doing everything right for yourself; I just didn’t want that.

Zaba12 schrieb:

After the first (1) winter with the standard settings and the ERRs, I had almost 10,000 compressor starts.

Wait a moment... let me quickly flip through volume IV of my study materials on heating system construction so I can join the conversation...

Zaba12 schrieb:

This winter, after my optimization, I had 560 starts.

Great for you... but for someone not familiar with heating technology, this is just annoying...

Zaba12 schrieb:

By the way, my neighbor’s heat pump is now dead after 5 years because he didn’t do anything.

That just supports my point: The specialist company installs rubbish (as you described it here with your example), and I, as a trained shepherd, now have to get a technical education so that my expensive heating system isn’t broken after 5 years... I don’t understand what is supposed to be sensible about that.
I’m not saying I have a solution—it’s just that what you describe obviously isn’t a solution for everyone either, see the neighbor, who certainly doesn’t have to be stupid because of it.

Zaba12 schrieb:

...so go ahead and believe in your standard settings.

Those who read carefully in advance are usually at an advantage!
I certainly don’t believe in standard settings; I generally doubt the so-called “standards” described here. I wrote that I’m fed up with the constant maintenance of a poorly installed or configured heating system. THAT is what I wrote, okay?
Can you really not imagine that there are people—regardless of age or gender—who have no interest in this technical setup stuff? Does that make them stupid? Of course it’s frustrating for the neighbor!

kati1337 schrieb:

I consider inertia a plus, as crazy as that sounds.

I don’t find that crazy at all if that works for you; on the contrary, you really have done everything right for yourself!

pagoni2020 schrieb:

Just imagine if you really had to put as much thought into all the other trades, or into structural engineering, window construction, concrete, timber, plastering... that would be impossible and extremely frustrating.

To be honest, I have come to believe that you actually should. When I presented my build at the shopping center around the corner, where there were lots of experts, they found numerous issues beyond the obvious mistake I asked about and analyzed everything in detail. Just before pouring the foundation slab, they identified three to four concerning points.
This will be the case in every project because many contractors tend to finish quickly and in a way that is easy and inexpensive for them. With most trades, you don’t notice it afterward because it’s hidden behind plaster or drywall.
If you’re lucky, poor workmanship won’t cause long-term damage.
With the heating system (air-to-water heat pump), defective work tends to become apparent sooner, since we still have relatively low temperatures in winter.

I once said, "Blessed are the simple-minded, for they get a worry-free (not defect-free) build," or something like that...

Edit: Typos