ᐅ Building height of 8.5 meters with a basement and two full floors?

Escroda schrieb:
Since the height difference of the reference point will be less than 10cm (4 inches) depending on the method used to determine the center point of your property, this argument would be somewhat weak in court.

Because I still don’t fully understand exactly how to determine "A" and "B" and why the difference between "A" and "B" must not exceed 6 meters (20 feet), especially when "B" is about one meter (3 feet) below "A" (so why do I even need "A"?), my takeaway from your answers (if I understood correctly) is that the basement will definitely be entirely underground. Because from the midpoint "B" (if this refers to the east-west street) to the center of the property is roughly the 10 cm (4 inches) you mentioned. I have no idea why the measurement to "A" would then be relevant (probably only for the other properties that are centrally located).

Escroda schrieb:
However, this does not relate to the nonsensical definition of the building height as 8.5 meters (28 feet) with the reference point being the floor slab. In my opinion, this clearly violates the principle of legal certainty, which could lead to the zoning plan being declared invalid.

Where can I find information about the process in this situation? Without immediately consulting a lawyer? I am mainly interested in the general timeline (is it weeks, months, or years?) and which costs I would have to bear (I would be willing to pay thousands of euros, but that would inevitably mean my house will be smaller than 8.5 meters (28 feet) because the home building budget would shrink accordingly).

Gracious goddess, what kind of DIY planner created this development plan?

The boundary between the areas with a 6 m (20 ft) eave height and those with a 7 m (23 ft) eave height even runs right through a single land parcel, as the development plan was clearly drawn up before the land consolidation process (the planned roads even cut across the boundaries of the agricultural parcels; according to the plan, the building area consists of nine land parcels).

It can definitely be said that the plan consistently lacks clarity.

The planned roads are on average about one meter (3 ft) higher than the adjacent properties!

But since you say that 75% of the area is already built up, there must be plenty of examples of how to actually handle a plan under these conditions.

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Marcello schrieb:
how exactly I determine "A" and "B"

You don’t need to determine "A" and "B." Your property is either on planned street "A" or planned street "B." Unlike your case, my example plot borders two streets, so the development plan should clearly specify which street is applicable. Here, let’s assume it’s "B." Then, the midpoint of the street boundary (blue) is identified, and at that point, the midpoint of the street (red) is determined. The elevation of the magenta point is then the reference height. While the midpoint is clearly definable for plot 174, for plot 751 this is no longer possible, which is why I criticize the definiteness of the eaves reference point.

Marcello schrieb:
Where can I find information about how the procedure would be here?

If I’m understanding correctly, your planning authority (city) is not the approval authority (county). Once you have found an architect, they should give their assessment and inquire with the county about how these stipulations are handled there. If the responses are unsatisfactory, pressure can be increased step by step. The question would be whether the county would risk a legal process because of the city’s negligence.
Regarding time and cost, I am uncertain. I once read about a case involving a dispute value of around €2500 (approximately $2700), where a ruling led to the invalidity of a development plan. I know of one case that was decided after two years, but I do not know how representative that is.

Marcello schrieb:
that the basement will definitely be fully below ground level

If I have correctly identified your property, your garden is about 1.5m (5 feet) below the street reference point, so I see no obstacles to having the basement protrude enough toward the garden to allow for regular windows or even an exit. The architect will have to figure this out considering the full-story regulations and eaves height.

Escroda schrieb:
While the center point for plot 174 can be clearly determined, this is no longer possible for plot 751, hence my criticism regarding the definiteness of the eaves reference point.

Thank you. Now I understand. Due to the curve, it’s indeed not that easy with my property. But even with a rough estimate on my part, the variation shouldn’t be that much. I think, as you already wrote below, that we are about 1 to 1.5 m (3 to 5 feet) below the reference point at the center of the property.

Escroda schrieb:
Regarding time and money, I’m not sure. I once read in a court ruling that led to the invalidity of the development plan that the disputed amount was €2500. I know of a case that was decided after two years. But whether that’s representative …?

I’ve also heard from other sources that procedures tend to be classified as multi-year. Unfortunately, I don’t have that kind of time; the kid is supposed to start school in 2019. And preferably right there, where he will grow up (so no school change).

Escroda schrieb:
If I’ve identified your property correctly, your garden lies about 1.5 m (5 feet) below the reference point on the street side, so I don’t see any obstacles to having the basement extend out enough toward the garden to allow normal windows or even an exit to be installed. The architect would have to work that out in relation to the number of full stories and eaves height.

I’ve sent you the exact property details again by private message. I also think it’s between 1 and 1.5 m (3 to 5 feet). So my initial interpretation was correct, and I can plan the basement to look out of the ground at least on the downhill side (windows for office, guest room, utility room, and storage areas fully underground on the uphill side).

I’ve contacted architects. We’re still open to building with a prefab home supplier as well. Currently, Weberhaus is leading. Do they discuss such details with you, or can you not expect that from the planner of a prefab home supplier (= seller)? It’s really important for us that everything is interpreted correctly. I’m just afraid it might be too much phone back-and-forth for a prefab home supplier and they might start planning carelessly.. :/

Marcello schrieb:
Do they discuss such details as well, or can you not expect that from the planner of a prefabricated house provider (= seller)?

The seller only wants your signature. They don’t handle any issues related to the building permit. The planning work is usually done by a regional or national planning office using a standard program. Several scenarios are possible: (1) You buy your prefabricated house with two full floors, a basement, and a 28° gable roof. (2) The planner prepares the building documents according to §61 of the Thuringian Building Code, assuming, as initially thought by the planner, the elephant, and me, that the ground floor slab is acceptable. (3) You submit the documents to the local authority, (4) who do not respond for a month, and (5) you can start construction.
Or (4) they say that an exemption is required, switch to §62, issue a negative statement to the district authority, (6) which nevertheless approves due to the questionable determination, and (5).
Or (6) the permit is refused. Your well-founded appeal (7), however, is granted, you receive the approval, and (5).
Or (7) the appeal is denied. (8) You revise your plans, receive approval, and (5).
Or (8) You take legal action...

Or (1) YOU clarify everything in advance with the involved authorities and buy a house that complies with their interpretation. Intensive pre-approval checks, including consideration of possible deviations, cannot be expected from the prefabricated house planner.

Marcello schrieb:
We are still considering building with a prefabricated house provider. Currently, Weberhaus is one of the frontrunners. Do they discuss such details with you, or can you not expect that from the planner of a prefab house provider (i.e., the seller)?

Those are two questions: b) No, the seller does not do any planning; a) the timber panel builders do not build into the ground, so you will probably have to discuss this from a permitting perspective with the house provider, but technically with the basement contractor.

I agree with Escroda’s scenario forecasts. It will be simple with the concrete slab; a reasonable district official will probably shake their head over the municipality and mentally replace "concrete slab" only with houses without basements, and here substitute it with "OKKD."

More tricky is determining the reference point for the eaves height—where I assume the municipality uses the planned street as the reference. If that is your front side, great. If you want the front door on the existing street side, it could turn into a gamble between the building authority head and their deputy. It’s precisely because of such issues that the principle of definiteness was introduced.

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