ᐅ Build a new house or wait for an affordable home to become available?
Created on: 4 Oct 2018 23:02
A
armmitcharme
Hello everyone,
Thank you very much for taking the time.
We are completely torn and looking for opinions on our situation.
My husband and I (both 27, plus our daughter who is 11 months old) are considering building a house, even though we never really wanted to, since we are quite adaptable but definitely not decisive.
To begin with: We are both still students. I will become a doctor next May. He will study for a long time yet, but already has completed vocational training and is an excellent homemaker.
Our current savings amount to €80,000 (about $86,000). We would definitely be able to get a loan since my (very financially stable) mother would act as guarantor for us.
We have been searching for almost a year for a suitable house in the beautiful village with a population of about 200 where my mother lives. Several months ago, we were offered a house there (a verbal agreement giving us a right of first refusal, but most people hardly sell their houses here anyway, so the seller can also consider themselves lucky), once the 90-year-old mother of the potential seller can no longer live alone. She is still relatively fit, walking around outside, etc.
We want to move there, specifically so that our little girl can walk to her grandmother’s without crossing a busy road, which applies both to the new development area (about 3 building plots) and to the reasonably priced house offered to us, as they are practically opposite each other.
Details of the old house:
5 rooms, approximately 120 sqm (about 1,290 sq ft) living space
Plot size 700 sqm (about 7,535 sq ft)
3 bathrooms, but one in the shed
Last plot at the edge of the forest (undevelopable, because the forest belongs to my mother)
Huge basement with a shed
Two garages
Built in the 1970s
Inspected by an expert (though somewhat superficial), very well maintained at first impression
Renovations needed, but no major refurbishment required. We estimate immediate necessary investments of around €20,000 (about $21,500)
Lovely garden with mature trees
Cost: €68,000 (about $73,000)
Details of the new development:
Mostly flat northern slope
€9 per sqm (no typo — it’s rural and the municipality supports young families. Nine euros per sqm)
Opposite the forest (undevelopable because it belongs to my mother)
Reasons to wait:
Very low costs, no loan needed
Manageable work (we are both not professionals)
Move in without huge upfront costs
We could gradually add more “luxury,” but start simply
Charm of the old house
The house is worth more than we would pay for it
Reasons against waiting:
We might end up waiting forever
One room is a walk-through
No matter what we do, it won’t be as environmentally friendly as a good new build
The house is not perfect
Reasons to build new:
It feels terrible to “take” the house away from the elderly woman
We could start planning immediately
I will have plenty of time for this over the next six months, but not after that
We could customize a lot according to our wishes
The plots are beautiful and practically a gift
We could build a passive house
Reasons against building new:
Costs are approximately €300,000 (about $323,000) if we are lucky — meaning debt
In this region, property usually never recovers its construction price
An overwhelming number of decisions
Neither of us are experts and could easily be taken advantage of
Any “luxury” must be financed upfront
“If you’re going to build, build properly?” — costs, costs, costs
Building doesn’t happen quickly
What we want:
At least 100 sqm (about 1,075 sq ft), maximum 135 sqm (about 1,450 sq ft)
At least 5 rooms (a second child is planned)
Preferably a low-energy house
2 bathrooms (one can be very small, just some backup option)
Not too much hassle
What I mean by luxury:
A tiled stove (very cozy, and since the forest is family-owned, we get wood extremely cheaply)
The infrastructure — daycare, primary school, proximity to future work, etc. — is ideal for us despite, or because of, the very rural location. But property prices in our very rural area are very low, so we don’t view the potential house as an investment but as a place to settle down. The chance of one of the approximately 10 other suitable houses in the village becoming available by chance seems very low to us.
What would you do?
What would you advise a friend?
We are completely uncertain!
Thank you very much for your help, and have a nice evening!
Anne
Thank you very much for taking the time.
We are completely torn and looking for opinions on our situation.
My husband and I (both 27, plus our daughter who is 11 months old) are considering building a house, even though we never really wanted to, since we are quite adaptable but definitely not decisive.
To begin with: We are both still students. I will become a doctor next May. He will study for a long time yet, but already has completed vocational training and is an excellent homemaker.
Our current savings amount to €80,000 (about $86,000). We would definitely be able to get a loan since my (very financially stable) mother would act as guarantor for us.
We have been searching for almost a year for a suitable house in the beautiful village with a population of about 200 where my mother lives. Several months ago, we were offered a house there (a verbal agreement giving us a right of first refusal, but most people hardly sell their houses here anyway, so the seller can also consider themselves lucky), once the 90-year-old mother of the potential seller can no longer live alone. She is still relatively fit, walking around outside, etc.
We want to move there, specifically so that our little girl can walk to her grandmother’s without crossing a busy road, which applies both to the new development area (about 3 building plots) and to the reasonably priced house offered to us, as they are practically opposite each other.
Details of the old house:
5 rooms, approximately 120 sqm (about 1,290 sq ft) living space
Plot size 700 sqm (about 7,535 sq ft)
3 bathrooms, but one in the shed
Last plot at the edge of the forest (undevelopable, because the forest belongs to my mother)
Huge basement with a shed
Two garages
Built in the 1970s
Inspected by an expert (though somewhat superficial), very well maintained at first impression
Renovations needed, but no major refurbishment required. We estimate immediate necessary investments of around €20,000 (about $21,500)
Lovely garden with mature trees
Cost: €68,000 (about $73,000)
Details of the new development:
Mostly flat northern slope
€9 per sqm (no typo — it’s rural and the municipality supports young families. Nine euros per sqm)
Opposite the forest (undevelopable because it belongs to my mother)
Reasons to wait:
Very low costs, no loan needed
Manageable work (we are both not professionals)
Move in without huge upfront costs
We could gradually add more “luxury,” but start simply
Charm of the old house
The house is worth more than we would pay for it
Reasons against waiting:
We might end up waiting forever
One room is a walk-through
No matter what we do, it won’t be as environmentally friendly as a good new build
The house is not perfect
Reasons to build new:
It feels terrible to “take” the house away from the elderly woman
We could start planning immediately
I will have plenty of time for this over the next six months, but not after that
We could customize a lot according to our wishes
The plots are beautiful and practically a gift
We could build a passive house
Reasons against building new:
Costs are approximately €300,000 (about $323,000) if we are lucky — meaning debt
In this region, property usually never recovers its construction price
An overwhelming number of decisions
Neither of us are experts and could easily be taken advantage of
Any “luxury” must be financed upfront
“If you’re going to build, build properly?” — costs, costs, costs
Building doesn’t happen quickly
What we want:
At least 100 sqm (about 1,075 sq ft), maximum 135 sqm (about 1,450 sq ft)
At least 5 rooms (a second child is planned)
Preferably a low-energy house
2 bathrooms (one can be very small, just some backup option)
Not too much hassle
What I mean by luxury:
A tiled stove (very cozy, and since the forest is family-owned, we get wood extremely cheaply)
The infrastructure — daycare, primary school, proximity to future work, etc. — is ideal for us despite, or because of, the very rural location. But property prices in our very rural area are very low, so we don’t view the potential house as an investment but as a place to settle down. The chance of one of the approximately 10 other suitable houses in the village becoming available by chance seems very low to us.
What would you do?
What would you advise a friend?
We are completely uncertain!
Thank you very much for your help, and have a nice evening!
Anne
C
chand19865 Oct 2018 14:21apokolok schrieb:
I also don’t fully understand how a single grandmother can apparently make up for the completely missing infrastructure.I didn’t even dare to ask that.
chand1986 schrieb:
If that’s even the case. We’re talking about a six-figure amount here. In my opinion, people are way too casually throwing around comments like "hey, you can easily spend that much for a better quality of life".
It should be noted that the security provided by a property that can be sold disappears if job loss, inability to work, divorce, or something else disrupts life plans... then there’s an outstanding loan, but what exactly is backing it?
It’s certainly unusual, even peculiar, but why not?
You can safely bet against that. How does anyone come up with something like this? Most people want to stay close to their jobs, there are fewer children, and those few who think differently still don’t manage to form a small town somewhere in the middle of nowhere. That’s a very good argument. I hadn’t thought of that yet. Considering the divorce rate nowadays...
A
armmitcharme5 Oct 2018 14:33@Obstlerbaum: We would need to invest in this house as well, that’s true, but it has been remarkably well maintained. The heating system (oil) was completely replaced in 2015, and all the windows were renewed in 2012. The last insulation work was done in 2005. The roof will need to be redone eventually, but it is still in good condition. The same goes for the electrical system. One bathroom was fully renovated in 2015 (and is really nice), which would be sufficient for us at first. We would renovate the other two if the kids wanted their own bathroom.
Before we could move in and live comfortably, we would need to invest approximately $20,000 (expert estimate), which already includes a new kitchen.
As I said, the house is worth more. I think the owner would sell it to us at a favorable price because my mom has bought hectares of land from him and he is annoyed by having to travel there constantly. He lives 200 km (125 miles) away and drives to his mother every weekend because she needs his help, so the situation is quite stressful for him.
@Garten2 and @11ant: Yes, we have considered a shared living arrangement as well, but the elderly lady definitely does not want that. She didn’t even attend her granddaughter’s wedding because she wants peace and quiet.
I’m not sure what the average market price is in the surrounding villages, although I somehow believe it can’t be that bad. It takes about 50 minutes to Bonn, 1 hour 10 minutes to Cologne, 25 minutes to the nearest mid-sized city, and smaller towns are within 15 minutes. So I’m quite surprised that people prefer to live cramped in the city.
@Mottenhausen: Yep, the primary school and kindergarten are less than ten minutes away on foot, which is important to us as well. For secondary schools, you’d have to take a 20-minute bus ride here, but that would be the case in any village we could imagine living in.
@Zaba12: The house, whichever one, would not be a retirement investment for us. Period. Even if we completely lose $300,000 (I think $400,000 is really too high an estimate; I don’t like big houses and the only luxury we want is a tile stove), so be it—we will have lived well for 20–50 years. If that other house wasn’t an option, we would definitely consider building there. I always budget very cautiously, assuming only my income and no salary increases, but my husband is studying computer science. As soon as he finishes, we shouldn’t have big problems saving for retirement (we are both under 30).
@Kekse: I fully agree with you and thank you for your opinion. You're right, we can’t just wish for something. I want our children to grow up there and maybe I just have to push myself a bit beyond my comfort zone.
What will soon be available in the village is a roughly 300 sqm (3,230 sq ft) half-timbered house, but no thanks, I don’t want to take that on.
@Matthew03: That’s a very good point you’re making. You know the people and they actually want to do good work. I hadn’t really thought about that before. Maybe I shouldn’t have watched so many horror documentaries.
@Wickie: Important point. Although my mom is only 55 years young. But we really want to live out in the countryside here in this area - I’m sure of that. Moving to another village might be practical if there was a good house for sale, but it would be a pity to move just 5 kilometers (3 miles) further away and then have to drive that distance all the time. Also, the kindergarten here is really great, and we want to send the kids there.
@Fummelbrett: The practice I have my eye on is 15 minutes away. I definitely don’t want a shorter commute. Experienced colleagues strongly advised against building the practice into our own home because then you’re expected to be constantly available. Of course, anyone can ring my bell anytime if they urgently need something, but being called on a Friday at 9 p.m. for mild back pain while I’m on the couch would not be great.
@chand1986: You bring up what happens in a worst-case scenario. That’s important. So, if I, for example, got sick before my husband finishes his studies, he still has completed training and work experience as an early childhood educator. Plus, I have disability insurance. According to my calculations, the loan could still be paid off, but it would be tough. In case of a divorce (which I don’t even want to think about—I love my husband so much), I could continue paying off the loan.
If, in the worst case, neither of us were able to work and the loan was still outstanding, well, I would have to ask my brother or my father or my mother for early inheritance support. That would be unfortunate, but we still wouldn’t be ruined. (The total expected inheritance for my brother and me is nearly seven figures each, but I’d prefer my mom to live forever and spend her money herself.)
@apokolok: We’ve already spoken with the bank and immediately received a very good offer. So that’s really solid, no worries there.
Completely lacking infrastructure? Kindergarten and primary school within walking distance? Job 15 minutes away? Next larger city (110,000 inhabitants) 25 minutes away? What else do you think is missing?
That’s all I want for life. It’s clear we want to live in the countryside; this thread isn’t about that.
Before we could move in and live comfortably, we would need to invest approximately $20,000 (expert estimate), which already includes a new kitchen.
As I said, the house is worth more. I think the owner would sell it to us at a favorable price because my mom has bought hectares of land from him and he is annoyed by having to travel there constantly. He lives 200 km (125 miles) away and drives to his mother every weekend because she needs his help, so the situation is quite stressful for him.
@Garten2 and @11ant: Yes, we have considered a shared living arrangement as well, but the elderly lady definitely does not want that. She didn’t even attend her granddaughter’s wedding because she wants peace and quiet.
I’m not sure what the average market price is in the surrounding villages, although I somehow believe it can’t be that bad. It takes about 50 minutes to Bonn, 1 hour 10 minutes to Cologne, 25 minutes to the nearest mid-sized city, and smaller towns are within 15 minutes. So I’m quite surprised that people prefer to live cramped in the city.
@Mottenhausen: Yep, the primary school and kindergarten are less than ten minutes away on foot, which is important to us as well. For secondary schools, you’d have to take a 20-minute bus ride here, but that would be the case in any village we could imagine living in.
@Zaba12: The house, whichever one, would not be a retirement investment for us. Period. Even if we completely lose $300,000 (I think $400,000 is really too high an estimate; I don’t like big houses and the only luxury we want is a tile stove), so be it—we will have lived well for 20–50 years. If that other house wasn’t an option, we would definitely consider building there. I always budget very cautiously, assuming only my income and no salary increases, but my husband is studying computer science. As soon as he finishes, we shouldn’t have big problems saving for retirement (we are both under 30).
@Kekse: I fully agree with you and thank you for your opinion. You're right, we can’t just wish for something. I want our children to grow up there and maybe I just have to push myself a bit beyond my comfort zone.
What will soon be available in the village is a roughly 300 sqm (3,230 sq ft) half-timbered house, but no thanks, I don’t want to take that on.
@Matthew03: That’s a very good point you’re making. You know the people and they actually want to do good work. I hadn’t really thought about that before. Maybe I shouldn’t have watched so many horror documentaries.
@Wickie: Important point. Although my mom is only 55 years young. But we really want to live out in the countryside here in this area - I’m sure of that. Moving to another village might be practical if there was a good house for sale, but it would be a pity to move just 5 kilometers (3 miles) further away and then have to drive that distance all the time. Also, the kindergarten here is really great, and we want to send the kids there.
@Fummelbrett: The practice I have my eye on is 15 minutes away. I definitely don’t want a shorter commute. Experienced colleagues strongly advised against building the practice into our own home because then you’re expected to be constantly available. Of course, anyone can ring my bell anytime if they urgently need something, but being called on a Friday at 9 p.m. for mild back pain while I’m on the couch would not be great.
@chand1986: You bring up what happens in a worst-case scenario. That’s important. So, if I, for example, got sick before my husband finishes his studies, he still has completed training and work experience as an early childhood educator. Plus, I have disability insurance. According to my calculations, the loan could still be paid off, but it would be tough. In case of a divorce (which I don’t even want to think about—I love my husband so much), I could continue paying off the loan.
If, in the worst case, neither of us were able to work and the loan was still outstanding, well, I would have to ask my brother or my father or my mother for early inheritance support. That would be unfortunate, but we still wouldn’t be ruined. (The total expected inheritance for my brother and me is nearly seven figures each, but I’d prefer my mom to live forever and spend her money herself.)
@apokolok: We’ve already spoken with the bank and immediately received a very good offer. So that’s really solid, no worries there.
Completely lacking infrastructure? Kindergarten and primary school within walking distance? Job 15 minutes away? Next larger city (110,000 inhabitants) 25 minutes away? What else do you think is missing?
That’s all I want for life. It’s clear we want to live in the countryside; this thread isn’t about that.
apokolok schrieb:
I also don’t quite understand how a single grandmother can make up for the clearly lacking infrastructure. How can anyone not understand that? I’m shocked that a tram connection could be considered more important than being close to a loved one.As a doctor, she can basically choose where to settle down—everyone is eager to welcome her. The lack of infrastructure probably even increases her demand.
With one child and another planned, it’s safe to assume the relationship is stable.
We also built out in the sticks. Put 400,000 euros down the drain. We knew from the start we’d never get that money back here.
We’re very happy. :P
chand1986 schrieb:
If that is even the case. Yes, I have my doubts too. I once worked for an outpatient care center developer, and my impression was that a general practitioner in rural areas is on a sharp decline.
Wickie schrieb:
In the long term, I believe rural areas will become popular again and more people will seek to leave the city. But will those places really become hardcore countryside? Probably only after retirement.
armmitcharme schrieb:
It takes 50 minutes to get to Bonn, 1 hour 10 minutes to Cologne, 25 minutes to the nearest medium-sized town, and the next smaller towns are reachable within 15 minutes. Sounds like the Brohltal collective municipality or similar, meaning Ahrweiler, Cochem, and Euskirchen as the "medium-sized towns." A knowledgeable forum member wouldn’t be far away (wpic, in the “smaller town” of Münstereifel).
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
montessalet5 Oct 2018 14:49@zaba: Is this the 5-year-old post you mentioned with the YouTube link?