Hello,
after a sleepless night, I’m seeking your help. We have a bathroom that is about 25 years old, which we inherited when buying the house. It’s now beyond repair, tiles are falling off, all the fixtures (Dornbracht!) are broken, etc.
We spoke with a highly recommended company in our region (Rhine-Main area) and they gave us a quote of over 50,000 euros. It’s a “maximum” offer, no extras, standard fixtures, house-brand tiles, etc. Maximum in the sense that everything that might possibly come up is included. No additional charges, according to them.
Part of the offer is, for example, to remove and replace the existing underfloor heating, and renew all the pipes in the bathroom. Reason: underfloor heating of this age is no longer reliable and should be replaced. We are wondering: is this really necessary?
The bathroom has a classic layout: bathtub and shower on one long side, double sink and toilet on the other long side. We only want to swap the positions of the bathtub and shower, with the shower to be built up and tiled. Everything else should remain as it is, just re-tiled with new sanitary fixtures and new taps. We also plan to lower the ceiling to install spotlights.
We had a budget of about 25,000 to 30,000 euros in mind, and assumed that might even allow for a strip of Bisazza glass mosaic. But the price calculated now, with relatively simple fittings that we do not like, is really depressing.
I understand that I can’t simply compare to prices from large online retailers, as contractors create mixed calculations including materials, installation, warranties, etc. Still, are we that far off with our budget? If not – how do I find a reasonable contractor without astronomical prices? One who really understands the job, who doesn’t insist on tile edge trims, who can properly do glass mosaic, and who is willing to listen rather than just follow their standard scheme?
We are definitely willing to invest to get a great bathroom. But 50,000 euros for a bathroom that still falls far short of our dream bathroom – that just won’t work.
Does anyone have any tips for us?
Many thanks and best regards,
Heli
after a sleepless night, I’m seeking your help. We have a bathroom that is about 25 years old, which we inherited when buying the house. It’s now beyond repair, tiles are falling off, all the fixtures (Dornbracht!) are broken, etc.
We spoke with a highly recommended company in our region (Rhine-Main area) and they gave us a quote of over 50,000 euros. It’s a “maximum” offer, no extras, standard fixtures, house-brand tiles, etc. Maximum in the sense that everything that might possibly come up is included. No additional charges, according to them.
Part of the offer is, for example, to remove and replace the existing underfloor heating, and renew all the pipes in the bathroom. Reason: underfloor heating of this age is no longer reliable and should be replaced. We are wondering: is this really necessary?
The bathroom has a classic layout: bathtub and shower on one long side, double sink and toilet on the other long side. We only want to swap the positions of the bathtub and shower, with the shower to be built up and tiled. Everything else should remain as it is, just re-tiled with new sanitary fixtures and new taps. We also plan to lower the ceiling to install spotlights.
We had a budget of about 25,000 to 30,000 euros in mind, and assumed that might even allow for a strip of Bisazza glass mosaic. But the price calculated now, with relatively simple fittings that we do not like, is really depressing.
I understand that I can’t simply compare to prices from large online retailers, as contractors create mixed calculations including materials, installation, warranties, etc. Still, are we that far off with our budget? If not – how do I find a reasonable contractor without astronomical prices? One who really understands the job, who doesn’t insist on tile edge trims, who can properly do glass mosaic, and who is willing to listen rather than just follow their standard scheme?
We are definitely willing to invest to get a great bathroom. But 50,000 euros for a bathroom that still falls far short of our dream bathroom – that just won’t work.
Does anyone have any tips for us?
Many thanks and best regards,
Heli
Tolentino schrieb:
Otherwise, I agree with you, the quote does seem very high.However, this is not the first thread here (in the past year) about a very high or too high flat-rate quote for a bathroom renovation. I don’t believe it’s a defensive offer. He is not a general contractor flooded with requests. It’s becoming clear nowadays that flat-rate quotes along the lines of "I’ll take care of everything, and when you come back from vacation, it’s all done" can be profitable for contractors. There’s a good margin included. Usually, they spend about three continuous weeks making the room look nice again, and they charge well for that.
Helisara schrieb:
Part of the quote is, for example, to remove and replace the existing underfloor heating, all pipes, etc. in the bathroom. Reason: An underfloor heating system of this age is no longer in good condition and should be replaced. We wonder: Is that really necessary?I can’t imagine that it is. I once had a case where the architect said the underfloor heating from 1978 was dilapidated and in need of renovation after 35 years. But I understand the reasoning that once underfloor heating is embedded in the screed, it’s hard to do anything with it.Even if you say that you have a simply structured bathroom where only the bathtub and shower will be replaced, you have to start from the assumption that there currently are no heating loops installed under the shower and bathtub, and also that no new ones need to be installed during the renovation.
Helisara schrieb:
... redacting the quote and posting it — I could do that, although I have some concerns about sharing the company’s intellectual property here. I’d need some time for that — the offer is 16 pages long.There is no intellectual property in a quote, as there’s no creative work involved (although, who knows? :p:cool 🙂Just post it, then we can spot the leverage points.
Without commissioning the work, I would
do the gutting myself: rent a dumpster, chip off the tiles over the weekend with a hammer, remove the sanitary fixtures and be done. Then have it hauled away. The cost is just the dumpster rental plus delivery and pickup.
If you know an electrician and plumber, that’s helpful. Otherwise, ask around in a club or somewhere else (neighbors?) to see if anyone knows a tradesperson and inquire there. Since tradespeople usually get more job requests than they can handle, ask if a journeyman can do side work. This is not generally forbidden and not illegal if they issue an invoice. They can supply any plumbing parts and usually know a tiler as well. Works the other way around, too 😉 At least that’s how it worked before the euro was introduced 🙂
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a hefty four-figure sum just for the sink and related items. But often, the client’s wishes are what really drive the price 😉
Well, if the main trade is plumbing and heating, they are so busy these days that they can really only take on absolute emergencies quickly.
My heating system is currently using more electricity than a fan heater, but it does get warm – that’s why someone can only come to check it next Friday (reported at the beginning of the week).
My heating system is currently using more electricity than a fan heater, but it does get warm – that’s why someone can only come to check it next Friday (reported at the beginning of the week).
Hello,
thank you all very much for your suggestions! We had already planned to handle some of the demolition work ourselves, yes. Unfortunately, the container can’t be placed on our property; it has to go on the opposite side of the street, so you can’t just throw debris down from above, but we would do it nonetheless.
I am still looking for companies to contact as alternatives—I haven’t found any yet or there are many here and I can’t tell which ones are reliable.
By the way, the company we are talking about here is something like a small general contractor—they handle the bathroom, tiling, heating, have their own tilers, their own bathroom planner, etc.
I actually think the main issue isn’t that the price-performance ratio is off, but that such extensive work is being proposed. So I’d like to ask fundamentally: Is it “common” to do a complete renovation on a bathroom that’s a little over 20 years old, meaning gutting the entire room, breaking open walls, removing all plumbing, replacing all plumbing completely, removing the screed and underfloor heating and installing everything new, and so forth? So basically rebuilding the bathroom from the ground up, leaving only the four surrounding walls? Even if the layout isn’t going to be changed? (“That’s how we always do it!” says the company.)
The house was built in 1998 and was originally constructed and fitted with high-quality materials, not by us. On one of the long sides there is a platform, into which the bathtub is set, and the platform continues lower into the shower area (you step up one step into the shower).
Should I post pictures? (You’ll be horrified… an absolute nightmare in turquoise, with columns and golden faucets).
Best regards, Heli
P.S. Everyone we ask about their tradespeople gives one of three answers: a) The company no longer exists, b) they weren’t very good, c) they were good but are not available and want to be contacted again in at least six months.
thank you all very much for your suggestions! We had already planned to handle some of the demolition work ourselves, yes. Unfortunately, the container can’t be placed on our property; it has to go on the opposite side of the street, so you can’t just throw debris down from above, but we would do it nonetheless.
I am still looking for companies to contact as alternatives—I haven’t found any yet or there are many here and I can’t tell which ones are reliable.
By the way, the company we are talking about here is something like a small general contractor—they handle the bathroom, tiling, heating, have their own tilers, their own bathroom planner, etc.
I actually think the main issue isn’t that the price-performance ratio is off, but that such extensive work is being proposed. So I’d like to ask fundamentally: Is it “common” to do a complete renovation on a bathroom that’s a little over 20 years old, meaning gutting the entire room, breaking open walls, removing all plumbing, replacing all plumbing completely, removing the screed and underfloor heating and installing everything new, and so forth? So basically rebuilding the bathroom from the ground up, leaving only the four surrounding walls? Even if the layout isn’t going to be changed? (“That’s how we always do it!” says the company.)
The house was built in 1998 and was originally constructed and fitted with high-quality materials, not by us. On one of the long sides there is a platform, into which the bathtub is set, and the platform continues lower into the shower area (you step up one step into the shower).
Should I post pictures? (You’ll be horrified… an absolute nightmare in turquoise, with columns and golden faucets).
Best regards, Heli
P.S. Everyone we ask about their tradespeople gives one of three answers: a) The company no longer exists, b) they weren’t very good, c) they were good but are not available and want to be contacted again in at least six months.
H
hanghaus20232 Dec 2022 22:10Helisara schrieb:
Should I upload some pictures? I already asked for that in post #4.Here. Painfully unfiltered. Admire the creative tile pattern, the step up to the bathtub, the delicate turquoise marbling, the “antique columns,” the already loose tiles, the supported sink... I think the desire to renovate here is understandable...
The door leads into a bedroom. This is not a family bathroom, only the master bathroom, so two users; the children only use the tub.
The door leads into a bedroom. This is not a family bathroom, only the master bathroom, so two users; the children only use the tub.
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