ᐅ Attic Insulation. Ceiling between floors, 5 residential units, cost sharing?
Created on: 2 Nov 2012 23:23
K
KonekGood evening, dear building experts,
before I explain my problem, a brief note about my living situation:
Since October 2010, I have been living in a condominium (building year: 1967) with three rooms and 74m² (795 sq ft) of living space. Besides me, there are four other owners in the building, but none of them live there themselves — all four other units are rented out. By purchasing the apartment, I am bound by the decisions of the owners’ association — more on that later.
After renovating the apartment myself, I felt quite comfortable, until, unfortunately, the bitterly cold winter came (we do not live in a subtropical climate). Besides a very high utility bill for 2011, I was freezing. I am not particularly sensitive to cold, but the rooms, especially those facing the north side, did not warm above 14°C (57°F), even though the heating was running at full capacity and was very hot to the touch. Last year, I was so busy with work that I was rarely at home; summer wasn’t an issue anyway, and I had little time to deal with the question “How do I get a comfortably warm home?”.
Information about the apartment’s location and the building’s condition:
- First floor, with a neighboring building on one side, so relatively good insulation on that side; on the other side, there is the hallway
- The building is not insulated for thermal efficiency
- Above my apartment is an uninsulated attic (uninhabited but shared space used for laundry and storage of furniture, etc.)
- I am separated from the attic by a reinforced concrete ceiling (estimated thermal conductivity between 2.1 and 2.3 W/m*K)
- Windows from the late 1980s, seals are failing, hinges broken, scheduled to be replaced next Friday
Before any smart aleck asks why I chose to live in such an apartment, I can only say: it is nice and was (relatively) affordable (I see it as a good investment).
Enough introduction, now to my specific problem:
The biggest “heat issue” I see now is the attic (the windows are being replaced next week). It extends over my entire living area (measured at 80m² (860 sq ft)). The main goal is, of course, to insulate well so that the heat stays in the apartment, but also that the attic remains walkable and can support heavy furniture. So I quickly dismissed the idea of using expanded polystyrene insulation (do you agree?).
I would like to do the insulation work myself and was thinking of using extruded polystyrene boards, specifically Styrodur 3035 CS (is this the right insulation? What thickness should I use? — what do the experts say? Can I calculate the optimal thickness for my needs? If so, how?). On top of that, I want to install OSB boards (22mm (7/8 inch), quite strong, can support a lot!).
Roughly estimating, the material costs would be about €3150 for 120mm (5 inches) of polystyrene plus 22mm OSB boards covering 80m². I am sure it can be done cheaper. Well, if it improves living comfort and, of course, reduces heating costs, I am happy to invest in it. I came across something that caught my interest:
Source: German Institute for Construction Technology:
"1. According to §10 paragraph 3 sentence 1 of the Energy Saving Ordinance 2009, the owner of a residential or non-residential building that is heated to indoor temperatures of at least 19°C (66°F) for at least four months annually is only obliged to insulate an accessible top floor ceiling of heated rooms if the ceiling was previously uninsulated. Alternatively, the owner may insulate the previously uninsulated roof correspondingly (§10 paragraph 3 sentence 2 Energy Saving Ordinance 2009). According to §10 paragraph 4 Energy Saving Ordinance 2009, paragraph 3 applies analogously after December 31, 2011, to walkable, previously uninsulated top floor ceilings of heated rooms. The word 'correspondingly' means that the replacement roof insulation must meet the same requirements for maximum heat transfer coefficient as the ceiling insulation. This makes sense because in both cases a first-time insulation is required. The heat transfer coefficient of the ceiling or roof may not exceed 0.24 Watt/(m²*K).
2. Both conditions of §10 paragraph 3 and 4 require that there is no existing insulation at all, neither on the ceiling nor on the roof. The regulation does not explicitly address the case where the top floor ceiling is uninsulated but the roof already has insulation that does not meet the maximum heat transfer coefficient of 0.24 Watt/(m²*K). In the case of insufficiently insulated roof, the question arises whether the retrofit obligation of §10 paragraph 3 — and in the case of a walkable top floor ceiling also §10 paragraph 4 — applies."
There are further points...
Could the costs of insulating the ceiling be shared among the other owners? They would ultimately get no benefit from this, but they are co-owners of the building (!).
I fear that if I propose this at the next owners’ meeting, everyone will agree but no one will want to pay for it — while if I were asked to contribute to insulation work in the basement, I would see no benefit either...
What would be the best way to proceed here? What rights do I have?
I look forward to your responses...
Regards
Konek
before I explain my problem, a brief note about my living situation:
Since October 2010, I have been living in a condominium (building year: 1967) with three rooms and 74m² (795 sq ft) of living space. Besides me, there are four other owners in the building, but none of them live there themselves — all four other units are rented out. By purchasing the apartment, I am bound by the decisions of the owners’ association — more on that later.
After renovating the apartment myself, I felt quite comfortable, until, unfortunately, the bitterly cold winter came (we do not live in a subtropical climate). Besides a very high utility bill for 2011, I was freezing. I am not particularly sensitive to cold, but the rooms, especially those facing the north side, did not warm above 14°C (57°F), even though the heating was running at full capacity and was very hot to the touch. Last year, I was so busy with work that I was rarely at home; summer wasn’t an issue anyway, and I had little time to deal with the question “How do I get a comfortably warm home?”.
Information about the apartment’s location and the building’s condition:
- First floor, with a neighboring building on one side, so relatively good insulation on that side; on the other side, there is the hallway
- The building is not insulated for thermal efficiency
- Above my apartment is an uninsulated attic (uninhabited but shared space used for laundry and storage of furniture, etc.)
- I am separated from the attic by a reinforced concrete ceiling (estimated thermal conductivity between 2.1 and 2.3 W/m*K)
- Windows from the late 1980s, seals are failing, hinges broken, scheduled to be replaced next Friday
Before any smart aleck asks why I chose to live in such an apartment, I can only say: it is nice and was (relatively) affordable (I see it as a good investment).
Enough introduction, now to my specific problem:
The biggest “heat issue” I see now is the attic (the windows are being replaced next week). It extends over my entire living area (measured at 80m² (860 sq ft)). The main goal is, of course, to insulate well so that the heat stays in the apartment, but also that the attic remains walkable and can support heavy furniture. So I quickly dismissed the idea of using expanded polystyrene insulation (do you agree?).
I would like to do the insulation work myself and was thinking of using extruded polystyrene boards, specifically Styrodur 3035 CS (is this the right insulation? What thickness should I use? — what do the experts say? Can I calculate the optimal thickness for my needs? If so, how?). On top of that, I want to install OSB boards (22mm (7/8 inch), quite strong, can support a lot!).
Roughly estimating, the material costs would be about €3150 for 120mm (5 inches) of polystyrene plus 22mm OSB boards covering 80m². I am sure it can be done cheaper. Well, if it improves living comfort and, of course, reduces heating costs, I am happy to invest in it. I came across something that caught my interest:
Source: German Institute for Construction Technology:
"1. According to §10 paragraph 3 sentence 1 of the Energy Saving Ordinance 2009, the owner of a residential or non-residential building that is heated to indoor temperatures of at least 19°C (66°F) for at least four months annually is only obliged to insulate an accessible top floor ceiling of heated rooms if the ceiling was previously uninsulated. Alternatively, the owner may insulate the previously uninsulated roof correspondingly (§10 paragraph 3 sentence 2 Energy Saving Ordinance 2009). According to §10 paragraph 4 Energy Saving Ordinance 2009, paragraph 3 applies analogously after December 31, 2011, to walkable, previously uninsulated top floor ceilings of heated rooms. The word 'correspondingly' means that the replacement roof insulation must meet the same requirements for maximum heat transfer coefficient as the ceiling insulation. This makes sense because in both cases a first-time insulation is required. The heat transfer coefficient of the ceiling or roof may not exceed 0.24 Watt/(m²*K).
2. Both conditions of §10 paragraph 3 and 4 require that there is no existing insulation at all, neither on the ceiling nor on the roof. The regulation does not explicitly address the case where the top floor ceiling is uninsulated but the roof already has insulation that does not meet the maximum heat transfer coefficient of 0.24 Watt/(m²*K). In the case of insufficiently insulated roof, the question arises whether the retrofit obligation of §10 paragraph 3 — and in the case of a walkable top floor ceiling also §10 paragraph 4 — applies."
There are further points...
Could the costs of insulating the ceiling be shared among the other owners? They would ultimately get no benefit from this, but they are co-owners of the building (!).
I fear that if I propose this at the next owners’ meeting, everyone will agree but no one will want to pay for it — while if I were asked to contribute to insulation work in the basement, I would see no benefit either...
What would be the best way to proceed here? What rights do I have?
I look forward to your responses...
Regards
Konek
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