ᐅ Stepped upper floor (townhouse) or Frisian-style house with a flat roof gable?
Created on: 15 Mar 2017 14:13
C
CarinaJ
Hello,
I have been reading along for a while now. We (2 adults without children) are considering making a change in our living situation. We are still looking at rental houses, but are gradually leaning towards buying a home. Existing properties are very hard to find. Honestly, in the last 2 years, I haven't found anything I even wanted to view (things look better on the rental market). We have already visited home shows and had a financial consultation. Our market research has shown that building is about the same price as buying existing properties (existing homes are not cheaper) and obviously also offers design advantages.
So, we are still at the very beginning. The reason for this post is that we have an appointment soon with a home builder (I already have countless catalogs here). The background is: we now know our financial situation, but we don't really know what the whole process might cost. Before we start properly (looking for land, etc.), we want to know what we can afford and whether we can get what we envision. Otherwise, we would probably wait longer.
Now we have a fundamental discussion. My partner would like to build a stepped-storey house (city villa). I basically like the idea, as long as it's not a plain box shape. There are different design options.
I have gone through various catalogs and come to the following conclusion: A city villa is significantly more expensive from the base price than, for example, a Frisian-style house or similar designs.
Our compromise would be something like a Frisian-style house with a flat gable roof.
After playing around with the floor plans, I realized something else: A city villa requires a much larger footprint than a "normal" house with a pitched roof. This, of course, affects the budget.
I have come up with the following pros and cons for myself:
City Villa:
Pros:
- Straight walls on both floors / no slanted ceilings
- Modern design
Cons:
- Price
- Less space overall
- No attic that can be converted
Frisian House with Flat Gable Roof:
Pros:
- Price
- Storage space
- Usable space under the roof
Cons:
- Sloped walls upstairs
- Either no skylights or you have to deal with the drawbacks of them
- Flat gable roof could present waterproofing challenges over time
To give you a better idea of what we are imagining:
- Double garage (with a room at the end)
- No open kitchen, but separated (e.g., with a sliding door) and still enough space for 4 people to comfortably eat in the kitchen; plus a dining room for 6 people as standard, possibly extendable to 8 or 10
- Guest toilet with shower on the ground floor
- Storage room (for house electronics, tools, canned goods, beverage crates, freezer on the ground floor)
- 2 children's rooms
- 1 main bedroom with walk-in closet (possibly 2 smaller walk-in closets also an option)
- Bathroom with bathtub and walk-in shower (90 x 120cm (35 x 47 inches)) and double sink
- Laundry room for washing machine, dryer, and space for drying clothes
- We need a “man cave” which can also be used as a home office (no external visitors)
- Ventilation system (central or decentralized still undecided) with heat recovery
- Small room for photography equipment, desk, and PC (an attic conversion would be ideal)
- Storage space for decorations not currently in use, suitcases, books, old toys, extra chairs, etc. (ideal: converted attic)
- Nice to have: a built-in masonry fireplace integrated into the wall so no chimney pipe is visible
- KfW 70 standard (though probably not KfW 70+ house)
- (For Frisian house) converted attic with fixed staircase
Additionally, if we had the option for someone to stay overnight properly, we would get visitors 2-3 times a year, each time 2-4 people. This is not a priority, though.
The next challenge I currently see is that I absolutely want a floor plan where the couch faces sideways to the window. So basically looking straight at the TV and to the right or left into the garden (south side). Such a floor plan seems impossible. Does anyone have an idea on this?
In summary:
- City villa: yes or no?
- Where would I get storage space in a city villa?
- Do I really need more square meters for a city villa?
- Is the city villa always more expensive?
- Can I fit my requirements in 150-160m² (1600-1700 sq ft)?
- How can I arrange the living room to have a side view into the garden and a direct TV view at the same time?
I understand that some will say that you can’t plan anything without land because only then do you know what the zoning/building permit/planning permission allows. But we want to know beforehand what we want and if it’s even feasible. It’s clear that the zoning and orientation of the plot will ultimately be decisive. We are already looking for plots and only consider those with a south orientation. What we want and what we actually get are, of course, two different things.
I would still appreciate helpful answers to these questions to make our project a bit more tangible.
Thank you very much.
Greetings from the far north.
CarinaJ
I have been reading along for a while now. We (2 adults without children) are considering making a change in our living situation. We are still looking at rental houses, but are gradually leaning towards buying a home. Existing properties are very hard to find. Honestly, in the last 2 years, I haven't found anything I even wanted to view (things look better on the rental market). We have already visited home shows and had a financial consultation. Our market research has shown that building is about the same price as buying existing properties (existing homes are not cheaper) and obviously also offers design advantages.
So, we are still at the very beginning. The reason for this post is that we have an appointment soon with a home builder (I already have countless catalogs here). The background is: we now know our financial situation, but we don't really know what the whole process might cost. Before we start properly (looking for land, etc.), we want to know what we can afford and whether we can get what we envision. Otherwise, we would probably wait longer.
Now we have a fundamental discussion. My partner would like to build a stepped-storey house (city villa). I basically like the idea, as long as it's not a plain box shape. There are different design options.
I have gone through various catalogs and come to the following conclusion: A city villa is significantly more expensive from the base price than, for example, a Frisian-style house or similar designs.
Our compromise would be something like a Frisian-style house with a flat gable roof.
After playing around with the floor plans, I realized something else: A city villa requires a much larger footprint than a "normal" house with a pitched roof. This, of course, affects the budget.
I have come up with the following pros and cons for myself:
City Villa:
Pros:
- Straight walls on both floors / no slanted ceilings
- Modern design
Cons:
- Price
- Less space overall
- No attic that can be converted
Frisian House with Flat Gable Roof:
Pros:
- Price
- Storage space
- Usable space under the roof
Cons:
- Sloped walls upstairs
- Either no skylights or you have to deal with the drawbacks of them
- Flat gable roof could present waterproofing challenges over time
To give you a better idea of what we are imagining:
- Double garage (with a room at the end)
- No open kitchen, but separated (e.g., with a sliding door) and still enough space for 4 people to comfortably eat in the kitchen; plus a dining room for 6 people as standard, possibly extendable to 8 or 10
- Guest toilet with shower on the ground floor
- Storage room (for house electronics, tools, canned goods, beverage crates, freezer on the ground floor)
- 2 children's rooms
- 1 main bedroom with walk-in closet (possibly 2 smaller walk-in closets also an option)
- Bathroom with bathtub and walk-in shower (90 x 120cm (35 x 47 inches)) and double sink
- Laundry room for washing machine, dryer, and space for drying clothes
- We need a “man cave” which can also be used as a home office (no external visitors)
- Ventilation system (central or decentralized still undecided) with heat recovery
- Small room for photography equipment, desk, and PC (an attic conversion would be ideal)
- Storage space for decorations not currently in use, suitcases, books, old toys, extra chairs, etc. (ideal: converted attic)
- Nice to have: a built-in masonry fireplace integrated into the wall so no chimney pipe is visible
- KfW 70 standard (though probably not KfW 70+ house)
- (For Frisian house) converted attic with fixed staircase
Additionally, if we had the option for someone to stay overnight properly, we would get visitors 2-3 times a year, each time 2-4 people. This is not a priority, though.
The next challenge I currently see is that I absolutely want a floor plan where the couch faces sideways to the window. So basically looking straight at the TV and to the right or left into the garden (south side). Such a floor plan seems impossible. Does anyone have an idea on this?
In summary:
- City villa: yes or no?
- Where would I get storage space in a city villa?
- Do I really need more square meters for a city villa?
- Is the city villa always more expensive?
- Can I fit my requirements in 150-160m² (1600-1700 sq ft)?
- How can I arrange the living room to have a side view into the garden and a direct TV view at the same time?
I understand that some will say that you can’t plan anything without land because only then do you know what the zoning/building permit/planning permission allows. But we want to know beforehand what we want and if it’s even feasible. It’s clear that the zoning and orientation of the plot will ultimately be decisive. We are already looking for plots and only consider those with a south orientation. What we want and what we actually get are, of course, two different things.
I would still appreciate helpful answers to these questions to make our project a bit more tangible.
Thank you very much.
Greetings from the far north.
CarinaJ
CarinaJ schrieb:
With a townhouse that has no basement and no usable attic, you have less space than with a house that has a pitched roof and sloped walls on the upper floor.
How do others manage with a townhouse? Always with a basement? You need somewhere to store things that would otherwise be kept in the basement or attic.
Regards
CarinaI don’t understand your reasoning. The space in the attic of an urban villa with a 28-degree roof pitch, for example, is larger than in a one-and-a-half-story house with a 1m (3 ft) knee wall and a 40-degree pitched roof. Or do you mean something else?
Best regards
Sabine
Flat roofs do not have a gable; a gable is the section of the facade at the attic level framed above by the verge.
But I think I am starting to understand bit by bit: You mean a dormer above the entrance, which projects from the facade—a cross-gable roof with a Frisian-style gable. And you want to compromise by limiting this section at the top with a flat roof, while the rest of the building is surrounded by a pitched roof, just shallower than a typical Frisian style.
This is how every mainstream home builder currently offers it: it looks as if the roof slope above the dormer was forgotten, and instead, the floor slab piercing through the roof is covered with roofing felt and a parapet is installed at the front.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
But I think I am starting to understand bit by bit: You mean a dormer above the entrance, which projects from the facade—a cross-gable roof with a Frisian-style gable. And you want to compromise by limiting this section at the top with a flat roof, while the rest of the building is surrounded by a pitched roof, just shallower than a typical Frisian style.
This is how every mainstream home builder currently offers it: it looks as if the roof slope above the dormer was forgotten, and instead, the floor slab piercing through the roof is covered with roofing felt and a parapet is installed at the front.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
J
j.bautsch16 Mar 2017 07:35To be honest, if you only want a small room for a desk and some documents (10m² (100ft²) max is enough), then plan this space on the ground floor or the upper floor. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the attic.
In a city villa (without a basement), you need to make the footprint larger to compensate for storage space and distribute the office, technical room, and utility room across the floors available (ground floor, upper floor). So start by deciding which rooms you want, in what size, and where.
For example:
- Kitchen, southeast-facing, at least 4x5m (13x16ft) (closed, as meals will regularly be eaten there)
- Combined living and dining area, dining side to the south, living area more northwest so sunlight doesn’t interfere with TV watching, minimum 4x8m (13x26ft) for a large dining table (lots of guests)
- Guest WC on the ground floor (maybe later a shower is needed?) 1.5–3m² (16–32ft²)
- Technical room on the ground floor (should it also serve as basement replacement storage for clutter?) 8m² (86ft²)
- Office/guest room on the ground floor (possibly used as a bedroom in older age?) 8–12m² (86–130ft²)
- Staircase design: straight, switchback, etc.
- Possibly a large entrance hallway (vestibule) that can also accommodate the wardrobe of a family of four plus a stroller and scooter, about 6m² (65ft²)
- Two bathrooms on the upper floor (master bathroom, children’s bathroom) 12m² + 6m² (130ft² + 65ft²)
- Children’s rooms at least 14m² (150ft²) each, southwest-facing
- Bedroom and walk-in closet with space for at least 4 meters (13ft) of wardrobe, north-facing (also here maybe plan some basement replacement storage)
- Utility room on the upper floor with space for hanging and ironing laundry? (This is where laundry is done, or would it be better on the ground floor near the technical room?)
This is roughly what it can look like. From this, an architect can derive a lot, and you yourselves can use this list to evaluate a possibly already finished floor plan for your needs and more easily decide if it suits you. You can also calculate the minimum footprint you would need (keyword: plot size).
In a city villa (without a basement), you need to make the footprint larger to compensate for storage space and distribute the office, technical room, and utility room across the floors available (ground floor, upper floor). So start by deciding which rooms you want, in what size, and where.
For example:
- Kitchen, southeast-facing, at least 4x5m (13x16ft) (closed, as meals will regularly be eaten there)
- Combined living and dining area, dining side to the south, living area more northwest so sunlight doesn’t interfere with TV watching, minimum 4x8m (13x26ft) for a large dining table (lots of guests)
- Guest WC on the ground floor (maybe later a shower is needed?) 1.5–3m² (16–32ft²)
- Technical room on the ground floor (should it also serve as basement replacement storage for clutter?) 8m² (86ft²)
- Office/guest room on the ground floor (possibly used as a bedroom in older age?) 8–12m² (86–130ft²)
- Staircase design: straight, switchback, etc.
- Possibly a large entrance hallway (vestibule) that can also accommodate the wardrobe of a family of four plus a stroller and scooter, about 6m² (65ft²)
- Two bathrooms on the upper floor (master bathroom, children’s bathroom) 12m² + 6m² (130ft² + 65ft²)
- Children’s rooms at least 14m² (150ft²) each, southwest-facing
- Bedroom and walk-in closet with space for at least 4 meters (13ft) of wardrobe, north-facing (also here maybe plan some basement replacement storage)
- Utility room on the upper floor with space for hanging and ironing laundry? (This is where laundry is done, or would it be better on the ground floor near the technical room?)
This is roughly what it can look like. From this, an architect can derive a lot, and you yourselves can use this list to evaluate a possibly already finished floor plan for your needs and more easily decide if it suits you. You can also calculate the minimum footprint you would need (keyword: plot size).
J
j.bautsch16 Mar 2017 08:07Glad I could help.
Regarding the children’s bathroom, everyone should weigh for themselves what they need and what they don’t, as everyone is different. We are planning with 2 bathrooms for a family of 4, which in my opinion is not too much. But it’s also perfectly possible without, of course.
Regarding the children’s bathroom, everyone should weigh for themselves what they need and what they don’t, as everyone is different. We are planning with 2 bathrooms for a family of 4, which in my opinion is not too much. But it’s also perfectly possible without, of course.
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