We are planning to buy a house built in 1956 with an extension added in 1975. Apart from the following issue, the house is perfect for us: several floors are suspected to contain asbestos. Two rooms have a screed floor with black adhesive, likely covered by FlexFloor panels, and fully glued carpet on top. The staircase is made of artificial stone, probably with black adhesive beneath, covered by carpet with a black backing. The hallway has screed with yellow adhesive and carpet on top. In total, this affects just under 60 square meters (645 square feet). We have already sent samples for testing but assume that most of these materials contain asbestos. We have obtained a quote from a remediation specialist for removal according to TRGS 519, with costs around 9,000 euros.
A friend who is an architect and frequently works on renovations suggests that we should first try to remove the carpets and FlexFloor panels ourselves (taking precautions like wetting the carpet, dust control, wearing protective masks and clothing), and then properly dispose of the asbestos-containing floors.
He advises NOT to sand down the adhesive but to either:
- Completely remove the screed
- Cover or seal it
His reasoning: sanding is ALWAYS problematic, as it causes contamination and dust will inevitably settle somewhere. It would also ruin the floor/screed. It is too expensive and costly only because a specialist company does it; privately, pulling it out is not an issue, and the adhesive can simply be covered.
Please share your assessment regarding these statements and the price estimate.
A friend who is an architect and frequently works on renovations suggests that we should first try to remove the carpets and FlexFloor panels ourselves (taking precautions like wetting the carpet, dust control, wearing protective masks and clothing), and then properly dispose of the asbestos-containing floors.
He advises NOT to sand down the adhesive but to either:
- Completely remove the screed
- Cover or seal it
His reasoning: sanding is ALWAYS problematic, as it causes contamination and dust will inevitably settle somewhere. It would also ruin the floor/screed. It is too expensive and costly only because a specialist company does it; privately, pulling it out is not an issue, and the adhesive can simply be covered.
Please share your assessment regarding these statements and the price estimate.
A
altlasterhaft16 May 2019 18:29Mottenhausen schrieb:
Regarding asbestos: it’s best not to touch it and leave it where it is. I would support the architect’s second piece of advice here. Without mechanical disturbance, it isn’t harmful.
The situation is different with adhesive. You never know if something is off-gassing or not, so it would have to be sealed airtight when covered over, which is certainly impossible under the staircase. On the other hand, for example, bricks are still bonded with adhesives nowadays, where no one knows what might off-gas in 20 years. That’s why the “state of the art” keeps changing, because over time it becomes clear that what was once considered standard practice isn’t always ideal. Yes, but if the adhesive contains asbestos, it has to be removed, if only because we can’t really cover it up. At least that’s how it seems to me as a layperson—there’s also carpet on top of the FloorFlex panels, so all of that makes for a very uneven surface.
And the issue with the staircase is exactly right—sanding will be necessary anyway.
You can probably do it yourself if you want to.
However, it’s important not to underestimate spending several hours working in full protective gear. Full-body suit, head and face mask, gloves... I know this kind of work outfit from personal experience: after 10 minutes, something starts to itch, and after half an hour you’re completely sweaty. On top of that, you can’t just take it off or scratch yourself easily.
At one point, renovators were working on a house roof dressed like that.
I usually do a lot myself, but that would be too risky for me.
It’s best to get a second quote so you can compare.
However, it’s important not to underestimate spending several hours working in full protective gear. Full-body suit, head and face mask, gloves... I know this kind of work outfit from personal experience: after 10 minutes, something starts to itch, and after half an hour you’re completely sweaty. On top of that, you can’t just take it off or scratch yourself easily.
At one point, renovators were working on a house roof dressed like that.
I usually do a lot myself, but that would be too risky for me.
It’s best to get a second quote so you can compare.
M
Mottenhausen17 May 2019 10:31What should not be underestimated is that asbestos-containing dust from removal spreads into all crevices throughout the entire house. Continuous vacuuming and dampening during sanding, among other measures, are definitely necessary. In the end, the equipment costs will likely be higher than hiring a professional company right away.
First, wait for the lab test results and then request additional quotes.
Although I am generally in favor of doing demolition work yourself, asbestos is not something to take lightly. I would have it professionally removed. Of course, you can take protective measures, but there is always a residual risk. In that case, I think the €9,000 is well spent.
Although I am generally in favor of doing demolition work yourself, asbestos is not something to take lightly. I would have it professionally removed. Of course, you can take protective measures, but there is always a residual risk. In that case, I think the €9,000 is well spent.
We went through the same experience:
I also unknowingly removed the FlorFlex boards using a hand scraper.
We then laboriously removed the screed as well (there was still mineral wool underneath the screed – keyword respirable fibers). All in all, I would say it took about 4 days with 2 people for 130 sqm (1,400 sq ft). (Asbestos disposal: €50 for 400 kg (880 lbs), €45 for 9 small bags of mineral wool, €500 for the container, around €100 for P3 dust masks and asbestos protective suits, plus a diamond blade for the angle grinder (we used this to cut the screed into slabs to make it easier to brush off the mineral wool). I can share some pictures if you want.
We also ran a ventilator to create slight negative pressure (rental €100).
In the end, I rented an asbestos vacuum and vacuumed everything (walls, ceilings, floors) (€100 for a weekend including filter).
Finally, we had an asbestos sample tested at the technical inspection authority (around €90 per sample): result showed no single (respirable) fiber detected.
Despite the concerns of people around me, I would do it exactly the same way again.
I know many who unknowingly removed this material. They’re still alive. In my opinion, there is no documented case of someone developing cancer from a one-time private exposure to asbestos. All documented cases involve occupational asbestos exposure.
So, my comment might not be welcomed by everyone, but it reflects my personal opinion. Everyone has to decide what they think is right.
Best regards,
Mattes
PS: Tell me how you ended up doing it.
I also unknowingly removed the FlorFlex boards using a hand scraper.
We then laboriously removed the screed as well (there was still mineral wool underneath the screed – keyword respirable fibers). All in all, I would say it took about 4 days with 2 people for 130 sqm (1,400 sq ft). (Asbestos disposal: €50 for 400 kg (880 lbs), €45 for 9 small bags of mineral wool, €500 for the container, around €100 for P3 dust masks and asbestos protective suits, plus a diamond blade for the angle grinder (we used this to cut the screed into slabs to make it easier to brush off the mineral wool). I can share some pictures if you want.
We also ran a ventilator to create slight negative pressure (rental €100).
In the end, I rented an asbestos vacuum and vacuumed everything (walls, ceilings, floors) (€100 for a weekend including filter).
Finally, we had an asbestos sample tested at the technical inspection authority (around €90 per sample): result showed no single (respirable) fiber detected.
Despite the concerns of people around me, I would do it exactly the same way again.
I know many who unknowingly removed this material. They’re still alive. In my opinion, there is no documented case of someone developing cancer from a one-time private exposure to asbestos. All documented cases involve occupational asbestos exposure.
So, my comment might not be welcomed by everyone, but it reflects my personal opinion. Everyone has to decide what they think is right.
Best regards,
Mattes
PS: Tell me how you ended up doing it.
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