Hello.
Our plumber referred us to the bathroom showroom, where we put together everything we needed.
Now, looking at the price list and searching online, we see huge price differences.
For example, the toilet with seat from the showroom costs about 700 euros, while on Amazon it’s roughly half that price.
So naturally, we wonder why we shouldn’t just order online, since the markup from the bathroom showroom seems quite extreme—twice the price just feels like too much?!?
What are your experiences with this?
Thank you.
Our plumber referred us to the bathroom showroom, where we put together everything we needed.
Now, looking at the price list and searching online, we see huge price differences.
For example, the toilet with seat from the showroom costs about 700 euros, while on Amazon it’s roughly half that price.
So naturally, we wonder why we shouldn’t just order online, since the markup from the bathroom showroom seems quite extreme—twice the price just feels like too much?!?
What are your experiences with this?
Thank you.
I will respond directly to Alex.
We Germans tend to be hopeless idealists; we like to argue in principles, state how things should be, and look to the future. You might be right. But, speaking from an Anglo-Saxon perspective, the job has to be done today. What good is it to the original poster how things might be in five or seven years? Right now, he’s frustrated about the bathroom showroom prices, about getting half the price on Amazon, about his plumber, and if I understood correctly, he is building with a general contractor. So now you suggest he use MyHammer and online platforms. I say, don’t do that. It can backfire. Harald has power on construction sites.
My advice wasn’t to accept the high price, but to talk to Harald about what he can do cheaply, possibly using Sanifair or other own-brand sanitary products. Otherwise, take the standard option and upgrade later.
And believe me, Alex, since I am professionally well-versed in social environment analysis and Sinus milieus, this type of Harald—who is not very internet-savvy, relationship-oriented, prefers calling over emailing, fond of cash—is surprisingly stable as a social group. Academics often don’t believe this, for example, that the rallying cries of parties like the FDP and the Greens about digitalization don’t bother the lower-middle-class and the adaptively pragmatic groups at all or barely at all. They listen to Helene Fischer, need the internet mainly for watching jokes on YouTube, and prefer to call Willy instead, asking for a price on thirty standard toilets, because they have a good contract—a vacation rental renovation—rather than spend hours researching online. The expensive part of those thirty toilets is always the installation labor, whether the bowl costs 66€ or 75€ is almost irrelevant.
We Germans tend to be hopeless idealists; we like to argue in principles, state how things should be, and look to the future. You might be right. But, speaking from an Anglo-Saxon perspective, the job has to be done today. What good is it to the original poster how things might be in five or seven years? Right now, he’s frustrated about the bathroom showroom prices, about getting half the price on Amazon, about his plumber, and if I understood correctly, he is building with a general contractor. So now you suggest he use MyHammer and online platforms. I say, don’t do that. It can backfire. Harald has power on construction sites.
My advice wasn’t to accept the high price, but to talk to Harald about what he can do cheaply, possibly using Sanifair or other own-brand sanitary products. Otherwise, take the standard option and upgrade later.
And believe me, Alex, since I am professionally well-versed in social environment analysis and Sinus milieus, this type of Harald—who is not very internet-savvy, relationship-oriented, prefers calling over emailing, fond of cash—is surprisingly stable as a social group. Academics often don’t believe this, for example, that the rallying cries of parties like the FDP and the Greens about digitalization don’t bother the lower-middle-class and the adaptively pragmatic groups at all or barely at all. They listen to Helene Fischer, need the internet mainly for watching jokes on YouTube, and prefer to call Willy instead, asking for a price on thirty standard toilets, because they have a good contract—a vacation rental renovation—rather than spend hours researching online. The expensive part of those thirty toilets is always the installation labor, whether the bowl costs 66€ or 75€ is almost irrelevant.
ruppsn schrieb:
@Nordlys, @ypg who said anything about being stingy?ruppsn schrieb:
No one, quite the opposite.Me neither. Did I miss some posts today?
ruppsn schrieb:
...because they don’t need to claim that they have a stingy mindset.Did anyone actually write that???
ruppsn schrieb:
And inventing fake scenarios of sloppy workmanship that supposedly only happens with other (cheaper) plumbers just to justify additional costs afterwards or convince themselves it couldn’t be done any other way is quite something.Nobody wrote that either... I find your choice of words quite aggressive.
ruppsn schrieb:
Are they all idiots who take trades out of general contractor contracts or just don’t build with a general contractor at all?Nobody said that either. (Did I possibly skip a few pages today?)
Lately, you seem to be skimming a lot and reading into things that aren’t there in statements you don’t like. As if you’re defending a position.
I also don’t see what any of this has to do with “additional costs.”
In our scope of work description, it was clear what we were getting. We had two options to choose from, and we really liked one. Not cheap or stingy options. If it had been otherwise, we would have chosen a different line or series before signing the contract.
Yes, extra cost, but for different fittings that we preferred (about €50 (around $55) extra per fitting... the same fittings were also more expensive at Reuter).
The bathtub was also clearly going to be a Duo 180cm (70.8 inches). It cost something starting with a 2 at Reuter.
The rimless toilet also costs more at Reuter than the standard one. Shower channel drain... no idea how much at Reuter, ours was 400–500€ (about $440–550).
Overall, our "additional cost for the selections" added up to three something... So where exactly is the huge surcharge for the plumbing work that the general contractor handled for us?
But if you naively pick every designer bathroom feature yourself, like “You only build once,” and insist on a flush plate with mother-of-pearl inlay because it looks so sparkly, you shouldn’t be surprised if the surcharge is many times higher than the standard offer.
bluminger schrieb:
The toilet with the seat, for example, from the display model was about 700 euros, on Amazon about half....that’s not a standard choice for an average detached house with high-quality fittings when looking at Amazon prices. At that level, I ask: Why choose a general contractor with average standard, if prince and princess want designer porcelain?
Yes, we also fell in love with ‘mirrors of the beyond.’ But we’re not paying 2,000 euros for a bathroom mirror—there are plenty of stylish options available for 300–400€ (about $330–440) that still look great.
Alright, I’m done in this thread.
One more thing,
@bluminger is using direct contracting.
Didn’t you get a quote beforehand? I think something like that should be included in the architect’s tender and cost estimate.
Therefore, the purchase, wherever it may be, shouldn’t be a problem. Just put the installation out to tender.
@bluminger is using direct contracting.
Didn’t you get a quote beforehand? I think something like that should be included in the architect’s tender and cost estimate.
Therefore, the purchase, wherever it may be, shouldn’t be a problem. Just put the installation out to tender.
Fuchur schrieb:
These things don’t necessarily exclude each other. You’re referring to the local tradesperson nearby. It’s understandable that they can’t compete with the lowest bargain prices from the internet. ….
This was one of the main reasons for us to decide against a general contractor (GC). Not to save money, but to get solid local companies for the same price, with service, good quality materials, and long-term commitment.Ah, there’s the dreaded word [emoji12]
Fuchur, precisely for the reasons you mentioned regarding local area, good quality materials, service, and commitment, we built with a GC (from the region, not mass production).
Hi ypg,
No, you didn’t. Although the phrase “stinginess is cool” wasn’t explicitly stated, the general tone, at least from nordlys, was quite clear to me. That also includes the second statement you quoted above.
I actually inferred that from your post where you referred to Amazon and Reuter. However, I just reread your post and realized it was meant differently. So, you are not the target of that point at all—I simply misunderstood you. These things happen, but I apologize anyway.
Is my wording aggressive when I call something “adventurous”? But when others call people software guys, smart alecks, or implicitly fools (quote: “But of course, if I naïvely choose every designer bathroom for myself...”) just because they like (overpriced) flashy stuff or enjoy designer bathrooms, then that is all perfectly fine and harmonious?! That sounds a bit odd to me—and I say this completely non-aggressively.
“And fantasize about sloppy workmanship scenarios that only happen with other (cheaper) plumbers...”
Please read through some posts again, for example the one about damage after 1.5 years, where that undertone is present. If not, then please take a look at this:
How else was that meant, if not that the plumbers at Reuter (or MyHammer, etc.) are all Hei-o-Peis... it’s not just me who understood it that way. Several other posts seem to have picked up on this too... so I would rule out that it’s merely a receiver problem.
May I ask what leads you to that conclusion? Such claims are easy to make, so please back it up. I just don’t understand it, maybe because...
... I am/was a software guy—and here comes the big shock (for nordlys): also an academic :-o
So, please tell me, what position exactly should I be defending here?
My topic is mainly outdated sales models that thrive on non-transparency, opening the door wide to fleece (uninformed) customers and treat them like fools. And yes, I might get a bit more passionate when posts imply that ONLY this old model is the one true way and alternatives are inherently bad and useless, for example because of Hei-o-Peis. That is simply not true and offers no added value whatsoever to the questioner or interested readers...
Didn’t you write yourself:
... and since comfort doesn’t come free -> extra charge.
Why with you? I can only speak from my experience, which the statement referred to: GC here in Franconia, 3 plumbing lines that didn’t suit us. The reasons don’t matter, but I’ll mention them anyway so it’s clear it’s not a matter of “bling bling” or “naïve designer bathrooms.” We prefer, fitting our house, more cubic shapes, which were not offered. So I agreed with the GC beforehand on the selection and asked for what I already have in my rental apartment: Duravit Starck 3. Certainly nothing flashy or what anyone would seriously call a “designer” bathroom, even though Philippe Starck is a designer. Also fittings from VuB (Just). A master bathroom and a guest bathroom. Price according to selection (Giener+Funk): 16,000 EUR (approximately 16,000 EUR). Checked with the GC what the extra charge would be. Answer: 16,000 EUR. Asked why nothing is charged separately since a standard price is included in the house price. Answer: that’s just the plumber’s price. So just for fun I put exactly the same items with all the accessories into the cart at Reuter: just under 9 EUR (approximately 9 EUR). Now tell me, is that not a hefty extra charge for (upmarket) standard ceramics, or is everything perfectly fine?
For the price difference, the local master plumber I hired myself (not tied to the GC) may charge around 300 EUR (approximately 300 EUR) per project for installation. Then he benefits, I support the local middle class with its employees, not some squeezed subcontractor who has to outsource the job to potentially mediocre foreign “craftsmen” due to low margins and has to deal with customer special requests sick and tired.
Also, with about 10 projects, I come to 3,000 EUR (approximately 3,000 EUR) and even in the worst case that a toilet bowl once had a hairline crack, cracked during tightening, and Reuter or others don’t replace it, I could easily buy the material again and still be cheaper.
ypg schrieb:
Me neither. Did I miss any posts during the day?
No, you didn’t. Although the phrase “stinginess is cool” wasn’t explicitly stated, the general tone, at least from nordlys, was quite clear to me. That also includes the second statement you quoted above.
I actually inferred that from your post where you referred to Amazon and Reuter. However, I just reread your post and realized it was meant differently. So, you are not the target of that point at all—I simply misunderstood you. These things happen, but I apologize anyway.
ypg schrieb:
No one wrote it like that... I find your choice of words quite aggressive
Is my wording aggressive when I call something “adventurous”? But when others call people software guys, smart alecks, or implicitly fools (quote: “But of course, if I naïvely choose every designer bathroom for myself...”) just because they like (overpriced) flashy stuff or enjoy designer bathrooms, then that is all perfectly fine and harmonious?! That sounds a bit odd to me—and I say this completely non-aggressively.
“And fantasize about sloppy workmanship scenarios that only happen with other (cheaper) plumbers...”
Please read through some posts again, for example the one about damage after 1.5 years, where that undertone is present. If not, then please take a look at this:
ypg schrieb:
Regarding the external tradespeople that Reuter and co have in their database, I won’t comment. Anyone can register on Hei-o-Pei to fill empty order books
How else was that meant, if not that the plumbers at Reuter (or MyHammer, etc.) are all Hei-o-Peis... it’s not just me who understood it that way. Several other posts seem to have picked up on this too... so I would rule out that it’s merely a receiver problem.
ypg schrieb:
Lately you have been skimming a lot and interpreting quite a bit into statements that don’t actually mean what you think
May I ask what leads you to that conclusion? Such claims are easy to make, so please back it up. I just don’t understand it, maybe because...
ypg schrieb:
As if you have a position to defend
... I am/was a software guy—and here comes the big shock (for nordlys): also an academic :-o
So, please tell me, what position exactly should I be defending here?
My topic is mainly outdated sales models that thrive on non-transparency, opening the door wide to fleece (uninformed) customers and treat them like fools. And yes, I might get a bit more passionate when posts imply that ONLY this old model is the one true way and alternatives are inherently bad and useless, for example because of Hei-o-Peis. That is simply not true and offers no added value whatsoever to the questioner or interested readers...
ypg schrieb:
I wouldn’t see what all that has to do with an “extra charge”
Didn’t you write yourself:
ypg schrieb:
But you want the “comfort” with a general contractor (GC), and you sign the contract with the scope of work, which includes the plumbing trade’s services
... and since comfort doesn’t come free -> extra charge.
ypg schrieb:
Where exactly is the hefty extra charge for the plumber that worked as a GC at our place???
Why with you? I can only speak from my experience, which the statement referred to: GC here in Franconia, 3 plumbing lines that didn’t suit us. The reasons don’t matter, but I’ll mention them anyway so it’s clear it’s not a matter of “bling bling” or “naïve designer bathrooms.” We prefer, fitting our house, more cubic shapes, which were not offered. So I agreed with the GC beforehand on the selection and asked for what I already have in my rental apartment: Duravit Starck 3. Certainly nothing flashy or what anyone would seriously call a “designer” bathroom, even though Philippe Starck is a designer. Also fittings from VuB (Just). A master bathroom and a guest bathroom. Price according to selection (Giener+Funk): 16,000 EUR (approximately 16,000 EUR). Checked with the GC what the extra charge would be. Answer: 16,000 EUR. Asked why nothing is charged separately since a standard price is included in the house price. Answer: that’s just the plumber’s price. So just for fun I put exactly the same items with all the accessories into the cart at Reuter: just under 9 EUR (approximately 9 EUR). Now tell me, is that not a hefty extra charge for (upmarket) standard ceramics, or is everything perfectly fine?
For the price difference, the local master plumber I hired myself (not tied to the GC) may charge around 300 EUR (approximately 300 EUR) per project for installation. Then he benefits, I support the local middle class with its employees, not some squeezed subcontractor who has to outsource the job to potentially mediocre foreign “craftsmen” due to low margins and has to deal with customer special requests sick and tired.
Also, with about 10 projects, I come to 3,000 EUR (approximately 3,000 EUR) and even in the worst case that a toilet bowl once had a hairline crack, cracked during tightening, and Reuter or others don’t replace it, I could easily buy the material again and still be cheaper.
H
HilfeHilfe17 Nov 2017 07:35ruppsn schrieb:
I can easily believe that general contractors (GCs) tend to be difficult when it comes to subcontracting. But maybe you should ask your GC why that is, and how architects manage to build houses with bathrooms AND tiles... because in reality, this coordination isn’t possible unless one GC is in charge...
It seems to me that you haven’t really considered the counterarguments. Why should Reuter be liable if the plumber you hired does a poor job? Why should the plumber who installed the basin be responsible if a pipe inside the wall breaks? Seriously, why?
Regardless, you are speculating a lot. As I understand it, you are guessing about what could happen if you had a case like yours but with, for example, Reuter. But that leads nowhere... first of all, your contract isn’t with Reuter; you still have the contract with the local plumber. It’s no different than if you were refitting your bathroom with new porcelain in 10 years. Or would you call the GC and ask for the plumber who did the installation 10 years ago?!
You built through a GC yourself, and now after 1.5 years you have water damage, right? So what has choosing a GC-employed plumber done to prevent the damage?
Is it possible some people here are just reacting reflexively against something they don’t really know?! Just for your information, Reuter.de, for example, also has a store and showroom in Düsseldorf— and not a small one...
Why is no one addressing the electrician analogy and the two or three specific questions about what exactly the problem is with installing standardized parts? Maybe because no one has any good arguments?
@Nordlys, @ypg, who said anything about being cheap? No one, quite the opposite. The work of a plumber should be paid properly and fairly, no one claimed otherwise.
If for you the service of the plumber and the convenience of having everything from one source (which personally I don’t see or need) is worth a premium, that’s fine. But I find it troubling when people who are unwilling to pay this because they don’t need it are then accused of having a cheap mentality. And inventing hypothetical scenarios of sloppy workmanship that only happen with other (cheaper) plumbers, to justify the extra costs or convince themselves there’s no other way, is quite questionable.
You see a benefit for yourselves and are willing to pay extra for it. Others, including myself, either don’t see the benefit or are willing to pay less. And now that is considered wrong? I don’t get it...You don’t understand me, I don’t want to get involved with the technical details. We have a complaint about the exterior wall of the house. It’s been going back and forth for months between the GC, their painter, and a third-party company about who is responsible. It’s only about €2,000 (around $2,200), from what I’ve heard, but no one wants to pay.
At the end of the day, you come here and give advice like it’s simple: Plumber 1 for the pipe, Plumber 2 for the angle valve, and then just install the toilet from Amazon yourself. If the pipe breaks, it’s clearly Plumber 1’s problem.
No, it’s not. When money is involved, everyone argues. Your advice is often really useless.
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