We approached an architect for our building project, and he designed a great single-family house in a relatively short time. So far, there is no contract, but he intends to charge according to HOAI fee zone III at a middle rate. The estimated total cost is around âŹ460,000 (approximately $490,000). What makes me a bit uncertain is that he recently mentioned we are "almost" 90% finished regarding the building permit / planning permission application. Based on the previous assumptions, I calculated a fee of almost âŹ19,000 (about $20,200) gross for service phases 1-4 (using âŹ460k divided by 1.19 and 4% additional costs in the HOAI calculator). The plans were completed in less than 10 days, so this amount seems somewhat high to me.
I would be interested to hear your opinion on this. Is that realistic? I understand that the fee is negotiable, but I lack arguments or comparison values. Among acquaintances, architect fees up to the building permit stage (for a single-family house) have been around âŹ8,000 to âŹ10,000 (roughly $8,500 to $10,700).
I would be interested to hear your opinion on this. Is that realistic? I understand that the fee is negotiable, but I lack arguments or comparison values. Among acquaintances, architect fees up to the building permit stage (for a single-family house) have been around âŹ8,000 to âŹ10,000 (roughly $8,500 to $10,700).
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WayneTrain9 Jun 2024 09:00Serena_Neubau schrieb:
Building our house was already a lot of work for the architectural firm. Preparing all the tenders, negotiating, and handling complaints. Creating all the drawings, submitting the building permit/planning permission application, coordinating contractors, and attending several on-site appointments. You also benefit from the architectâs valuable network. If I were an architect, I would also want to be paid accordingly⌠Itâs definitely a lot of stress and work. The question is how supply and demand currently are. When thereâs less work, the architect might be willing to offer a lower price to secure a contract. I would try to negotiate (for example, 10% of the total construction cost) or maybe consider asking a second architect? Good luck.No question, it will be a lot of work. He is estimating about 1,000 hours for a single-family house. The first offer was 10% higher, so there isnât much room left for negotiation. Fundamentally, though, we have a good feeling about this architect.
There are online providers who offer structural engineering services for a flat rate of âŹ4,000 (about $4,300). Compared to that, âŹ15,000 (about $16,000) sounds very high. The quote also includes 6% for additional costs. I donât find âŹ5,000 (about $5,400) for printer paper and travel expenses realistic. What else might be included in that cost category?
Our architect also applied a fixed percentage to her cost estimate. We thought this was quite good because this cost item didnât increase proportionally with the rising construction costs (we were renovating). In the end, we landed at under 10% of the costs, whereas the estimate would have been 15%.
However, everything was included there (e.g., travel expenses), so I find it a bit odd if those are charged separately for you. Because 12.5% of âŹ600,000 is only âŹ75,000? For structural engineering, we are at âŹ15,000 out of âŹ90,000. Where is the rest of the requested âŹ120,000 coming from?
I also feel that structural engineering is quite expensive, but it surely depends heavily on the complexity.
However, everything was included there (e.g., travel expenses), so I find it a bit odd if those are charged separately for you. Because 12.5% of âŹ600,000 is only âŹ75,000? For structural engineering, we are at âŹ15,000 out of âŹ90,000. Where is the rest of the requested âŹ120,000 coming from?
I also feel that structural engineering is quite expensive, but it surely depends heavily on the complexity.
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thangorodrim5 Jul 2024 09:44It is extremely difficult to find good benchmark values for architect fee proposals in the relevant forums.
Maybe Iâm way off, but 1000 hours of work for a single-family house doesnât seem like a small amount. Based on the HOAI fee structure, that would mean the architect works one and a half months at 40 hours per week just to get the house approved by the authorities. With that workload, the architect could average about two houses per year.
As mentioned before, of course, you pay for the service, not just the time, but you would expect there to be some reasonable proportion between the two.
I received a fee proposal that broke down individual items with estimated hours. The hourly rate was very low (70 euros/hour; 2023). For comparison, he also showed what the fee would be for a house at HOAI level 3, base rate, if my gross budget (-100k) for all cost groups (!) was entered as eligible costs (!) into the HOAI calculator. His calculation resulted in an average HOAI price, but he presented it as if he were offering me an incredible bargain.
Well, in that detailed hour breakdown, there were, for example, 10 hours for setback area calculations. That also seemed like a lot to me. Due to many other red flags, I did not hire him in the end, but I guess this gives a taste of the challenges involved in comparing offers.
Maybe Iâm way off, but 1000 hours of work for a single-family house doesnât seem like a small amount. Based on the HOAI fee structure, that would mean the architect works one and a half months at 40 hours per week just to get the house approved by the authorities. With that workload, the architect could average about two houses per year.
As mentioned before, of course, you pay for the service, not just the time, but you would expect there to be some reasonable proportion between the two.
I received a fee proposal that broke down individual items with estimated hours. The hourly rate was very low (70 euros/hour; 2023). For comparison, he also showed what the fee would be for a house at HOAI level 3, base rate, if my gross budget (-100k) for all cost groups (!) was entered as eligible costs (!) into the HOAI calculator. His calculation resulted in an average HOAI price, but he presented it as if he were offering me an incredible bargain.
Well, in that detailed hour breakdown, there were, for example, 10 hours for setback area calculations. That also seemed like a lot to me. Due to many other red flags, I did not hire him in the end, but I guess this gives a taste of the challenges involved in comparing offers.
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