We approached an architect for our building project, and he designed a great single-family house in a relatively short time. So far, there is no contract, but he intends to charge according to HOAI fee zone III at a middle rate. The estimated total cost is around €460,000 (approximately $490,000). What makes me a bit uncertain is that he recently mentioned we are "almost" 90% finished regarding the building permit / planning permission application. Based on the previous assumptions, I calculated a fee of almost €19,000 (about $20,200) gross for service phases 1-4 (using €460k divided by 1.19 and 4% additional costs in the HOAI calculator). The plans were completed in less than 10 days, so this amount seems somewhat high to me.
I would be interested to hear your opinion on this. Is that realistic? I understand that the fee is negotiable, but I lack arguments or comparison values. Among acquaintances, architect fees up to the building permit stage (for a single-family house) have been around €8,000 to €10,000 (roughly $8,500 to $10,700).
I would be interested to hear your opinion on this. Is that realistic? I understand that the fee is negotiable, but I lack arguments or comparison values. Among acquaintances, architect fees up to the building permit stage (for a single-family house) have been around €8,000 to €10,000 (roughly $8,500 to $10,700).
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hanghaus202331 May 2024 13:06Have you read and understood this?
The parties were not even agreed on the most important aspect (the payment) when the architect was initially contacted. The architect only presented the proposal to charge according to HOAI with his draft. Until then, the work was done without a contract.
But it probably won’t go that far here. Perhaps the original poster will clarify whether they officially commissioned the planning services. I rather doubt it.
Araknis schrieb:
It is important to distinguish cases where it is already unclear and disputed at the time of commissioning whether the services provided by the architect are merely gratuitous preliminary work for acquiring the contract or whether they are commissioned, fee-based architectural services. In such cases, the HOAI price regulations, which always require a contract to be concluded, are not helpful.
The parties were not even agreed on the most important aspect (the payment) when the architect was initially contacted. The architect only presented the proposal to charge according to HOAI with his draft. Until then, the work was done without a contract.
But it probably won’t go that far here. Perhaps the original poster will clarify whether they officially commissioned the planning services. I rather doubt it.
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hanghaus202331 May 2024 13:12hanghaus2023 schrieb:
I doubt it.The original poster writes the following:"He didn’t mention the specifications at the start, but rather a free initial draft (which I didn’t mention at the beginning – sorry)."
If it was stated that the design is free of charge, then the entire process should cost nothing at all.
Otherwise, the whole situation lacks information about what the original poster communicated to the architect. Was it just an initial meeting on-site with no detailed discussion, or were specific requirements expressed and a detailed planning conversation held? If the architect started drawing right away in the first case and independently pushed the project almost up to the building permit / planning permission stage, then, from a legal perspective as I understand it, we are probably still in the prospecting phase. If there were discussions about requirements and budget and possibly negotiations over changes at the end, then we are likely already well into the service phases. This is also mentioned in the quoted text, but more input from the original poster is needed.
Otherwise, the whole situation lacks information about what the original poster communicated to the architect. Was it just an initial meeting on-site with no detailed discussion, or were specific requirements expressed and a detailed planning conversation held? If the architect started drawing right away in the first case and independently pushed the project almost up to the building permit / planning permission stage, then, from a legal perspective as I understand it, we are probably still in the prospecting phase. If there were discussions about requirements and budget and possibly negotiations over changes at the end, then we are likely already well into the service phases. This is also mentioned in the quoted text, but more input from the original poster is needed.
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Serena_Neubau1 Jun 2024 12:12Our architects initially proposed using the HOAI fee structure. However, we found it difficult to clearly understand the exact costs involved with HOAI. Therefore, we agreed on a fixed price based on the estimated construction cost. We settled on about 7.5% of the construction cost. With HOAI, it would probably have been around 10-12%.
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WayneTrain8 Jun 2024 23:06Serena_Neubau schrieb:
Our architects initially proposed using the HOAI fee structure. However, we found it difficult to predict the exact costs based on HOAI. Therefore, we agreed on a fixed price calculated as a percentage of the estimated construction cost. We settled on about 7.5% of the total construction cost. Using HOAI, it would probably have been around 10-12%. Our architect wants 12.5% according to HOAI. He intends to apply this rate as a flat fee based on the estimated budget rather than the actual costs. I don’t think this is unreasonable, since the costs are fixed from the start. Has anyone had experience with this?
Additionally, about 25,000 euros (USD equivalent) in extra costs are expected, including 15,000 euros (USD equivalent) for structural engineering.
Service phases 1-8 including additional costs amount to approximately 120,000 euros (USD equivalent) for a single-family home with billable costs of 600,000 euros (USD equivalent).
Is that reasonable?
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Serena_Neubau9 Jun 2024 07:56Building our house was already a lot of work for the architectural firm. Preparing all the tender documents, negotiating, and handling complaints. Creating all the drawings, submitting the building permit / planning permission application, coordinating the tradespeople, and attending several on-site appointments. You also benefit from the architect’s valuable network at no extra cost. If I were an architect, I would definitely want to be paid that much... It’s certainly a lot of stress and work. The question is how the current supply and demand situation is. When work is scarce, an architect might be willing to offer a lower price to secure a contract. I would try negotiating (for example, only 10% of the total house cost) or perhaps consider asking a second architect? Good luck
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