ᐅ Architectural Design Phases 1-4 – Which Documents Are Required?
Created on: 20 May 2022 22:06
P
prisma17
Hello,
we have signed an architect agreement with a planner for service phases 1-4. Now, due to various developments, we have decided not to proceed with the construction and want to cancel the planning contract. The planner has sent us an invoice, or rather just stated the amount he wants to charge for phases 1-4. The sum is around 12,000 + VAT.
We are now wondering which documents he should have at least produced – apart from a finalized dimensioned floor plan, a site layout on the plot, and the elevations of the house, we don’t have any other documents. We don’t know if he has already prepared others – we don’t want to rule it out – but he should be able to provide those to us. He verbally told us the construction costs would be around 300,000. We definitely went through several iterations of the floor plan and even changed the type of house. Still, in our view, not much has happened so far that would allow us to submit a building permit / planning permission application. Since the plot is still being developed, there are no surveys or similar reports yet.
What documents should he at least provide to us?
I want to clarify that we were aware from the beginning that planning involves significant costs, and we want to pay him fairly for the services provided—there is no question about that. However, during discussions, he hinted that he is now making us “pay dearly” because we are not going ahead with the build. He originally quoted us a significantly lower price for the four phases at the start. For now, we have decided to review his invoice carefully. At the moment, it is just the bare amount without any explanation or breakdown. If he can clearly justify this to us, we will consider it a learning experience.
Thanks in advance for your assessment!
we have signed an architect agreement with a planner for service phases 1-4. Now, due to various developments, we have decided not to proceed with the construction and want to cancel the planning contract. The planner has sent us an invoice, or rather just stated the amount he wants to charge for phases 1-4. The sum is around 12,000 + VAT.
We are now wondering which documents he should have at least produced – apart from a finalized dimensioned floor plan, a site layout on the plot, and the elevations of the house, we don’t have any other documents. We don’t know if he has already prepared others – we don’t want to rule it out – but he should be able to provide those to us. He verbally told us the construction costs would be around 300,000. We definitely went through several iterations of the floor plan and even changed the type of house. Still, in our view, not much has happened so far that would allow us to submit a building permit / planning permission application. Since the plot is still being developed, there are no surveys or similar reports yet.
What documents should he at least provide to us?
I want to clarify that we were aware from the beginning that planning involves significant costs, and we want to pay him fairly for the services provided—there is no question about that. However, during discussions, he hinted that he is now making us “pay dearly” because we are not going ahead with the build. He originally quoted us a significantly lower price for the four phases at the start. For now, we have decided to review his invoice carefully. At the moment, it is just the bare amount without any explanation or breakdown. If he can clearly justify this to us, we will consider it a learning experience.
Thanks in advance for your assessment!
S
SandraAnne14 Jan 2023 16:3111ant schrieb:
You can scroll back through almost six years of my posts here; the user baulotse-hoffmann is now called bauen-jetzt, and I’m using the same account at gmx de as here. Those who can’t send private messages yet also won’t be able to receive them. But you should be able to start your own thread (and tell us more about yourself and your building project). Oh, thanks 🙂
I found bauen-jetzt and with that also the modules.
I didn’t want to start my own thread yet, especially if I can find many answers to my questions simply by reading existing posts or websites :-)
11ant schrieb:
You can scroll back through almost six years of my posts here. Wow. 30 pages!
Looks like I have some reading to do :-)
SandraAnne schrieb:
Wow. 30 pages!
I guess I have some reading to do.Oh, don’t bother with that, it’s neither necessary nor recommended: more than 19,400 posts are not meant to be consumed as overkill. Explore them by asking specific questions, even if translating those into our admittedly imperfect search function takes some practice. In my opinion, the most valuable parts of many of my posts are the collections of links to other forum posts by different members.SandraAnne schrieb:
I didn’t want to start my own thread yet, since I might find many answers to my questions simply by reading existing posts or websites.Don’t get overwhelmed. It’s easy to get lost in homeowner information if you don’t actively organize it. And the more you share about your building project here, the better guidance you can get. That will clear up the endless amazement at all the knowledge, much of which can actually be distracting. At least tell us where you stand: is it just a wish, or do you already have financing or even a plot of land?SandraAnne schrieb:
I found Bauen-jetzt and with that the modules.When and how to intelligently deviate from the roadmap will be explained in later posts. And you’ve found the contact option by now, too 🙂https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Here is an example to illustrate the point: For a small renovation, we hired our structural engineer for service phases 1-5 (!). What we received was an offer for service phases P1-4 for about 3,000. I then called him again and made it clear that we were serious and definitely wanted phase 5. He came back with a new offer for 12,000, which we accepted.
Nobody can really start building with just the permit plans / planning permission plans. These are only sketches to inform the building authority about what will eventually be constructed on the site. The execution plans (service phase 5) are the actual plans that can be handed to the tradespeople, showing every electrical line and pipe in detail. The planner has to put considerable thought and several hours into developing and coordinating solutions for all trades. With these plans, construction could continue even if the architect suddenly moved to Australia.
Nobody can really start building with just the permit plans / planning permission plans. These are only sketches to inform the building authority about what will eventually be constructed on the site. The execution plans (service phase 5) are the actual plans that can be handed to the tradespeople, showing every electrical line and pipe in detail. The planner has to put considerable thought and several hours into developing and coordinating solutions for all trades. With these plans, construction could continue even if the architect suddenly moved to Australia.
S
SandraAnne15 Jan 2023 13:17Thank you for the cost examples @K a t j a.
I will definitely ask in advance about the cost of work phase 5. Because actually (according to HOAI), the costs for work phases 1-4 (27%) are roughly the same as work phase 5 (25%) alone.
I will definitely ask in advance about the cost of work phase 5. Because actually (according to HOAI), the costs for work phases 1-4 (27%) are roughly the same as work phase 5 (25%) alone.
SandraAnne schrieb:
Thanks for the cost examples @K a t j a.
I will definitely ask in advance what phase 5 will cost. Because actually (according to HOAI) the costs for phases 1-4 (27%) are roughly the same as phase 5 (25%) alone. Two years ago, we managed to get a fixed price for that (phases 1-4 + "part of phase 5" + energy consulting as a package) separate from the HOAI. Maybe the situation has improved now to get something like that again?
SandraAnne schrieb:
Thank you for the cost examples @@K a t j a .In my opinion, the additional charge and hesitation indicate the architect’s willingness to perform only the less labor-intensive phases, so this should be seen as a defensive offer. I probably wouldn’t have commissioned them.SandraAnne schrieb:
I will definitely ask in advance what phase 5 costs, because actually (according to HOAI) phases 1–4 cost about the same (27%) as phase 5 alone (25%).However, from my perspective, this is only a minor reason for the popularity of contracting phases 1 to 4. Many clients simply want a non-construction company-affiliated certification stamp (since, on the one hand, the authorities say you cannot submit the application yourself, and on the other hand, the clients are unaware of the importance of detailed plans). They consider the "house from the Nikolaus game" shown in the application illustrations to be “THE building plans.”https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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