Hello,
we have paid an invoice of €11,900 for our architect, who is also handling the building permit (planning permission). The invoice included the complete finalization of the plans, multiple copies of the building application, all visits to the city and building offices, consultations with the structural engineer and signatures, etc., as well as three plan revisions (because the house was supposed to be enlarged).
Is this within the normal range? Was the invoice excessive?
I would appreciate your assessments.
we have paid an invoice of €11,900 for our architect, who is also handling the building permit (planning permission). The invoice included the complete finalization of the plans, multiple copies of the building application, all visits to the city and building offices, consultations with the structural engineer and signatures, etc., as well as three plan revisions (because the house was supposed to be enlarged).
Is this within the normal range? Was the invoice excessive?
I would appreciate your assessments.
Hello Danton,
Of course, this should be understood as an official order that will be compensated according to the official regulations. The goal is to review the construction costs based on the trades’ services and to give a "go-ahead" as a third party.
Additionally, I would like to get an explanation from another perspective about what "turnkey" according to DIN 276(?) really means. I thought we could save money based on the specifications. When listing the features, I feel that I only set the minimum requirements and hoped to save money this way, as mentioned before. (For example, tiling the hobby room with leftover tiles, using “medium-coarse plaster” instead of fine plaster, textured wallpaper, and click laminate flooring.) However, from what I heard, these characteristics do not necessarily have to reduce the price by a few hundred dollars. This isn’t entirely clear to me because I have always believed that with “turnkey,” I have the choice between exclusive (gold-plated faucets, marble stairs, high-end wallpaper, etc.), mid-range, and “lower limit” options. Somehow, the DIN standard must be based on something, even if it was defined by averaging from 100,000 examples. (For me, normal textured wallpaper and click laminate are almost at the lower limit.) By the way, our A. knew the planned construction budget. We actually assumed that since we did not receive any statements to the contrary, the budget would remain the same—until we had the rough breakdown. However, by then, we were already too far along (and mentally already living in our house) to start everything over again. So, the money now needs to be recouped at least approximately.
Proposal: Once I have the corresponding breakdown and the contract, I will get in touch with you. It might still take about a week. (It’s difficult to get fixed appointments out of A.)
Greetings from southern Germany
nuisette
Of course, this should be understood as an official order that will be compensated according to the official regulations. The goal is to review the construction costs based on the trades’ services and to give a "go-ahead" as a third party.
Additionally, I would like to get an explanation from another perspective about what "turnkey" according to DIN 276(?) really means. I thought we could save money based on the specifications. When listing the features, I feel that I only set the minimum requirements and hoped to save money this way, as mentioned before. (For example, tiling the hobby room with leftover tiles, using “medium-coarse plaster” instead of fine plaster, textured wallpaper, and click laminate flooring.) However, from what I heard, these characteristics do not necessarily have to reduce the price by a few hundred dollars. This isn’t entirely clear to me because I have always believed that with “turnkey,” I have the choice between exclusive (gold-plated faucets, marble stairs, high-end wallpaper, etc.), mid-range, and “lower limit” options. Somehow, the DIN standard must be based on something, even if it was defined by averaging from 100,000 examples. (For me, normal textured wallpaper and click laminate are almost at the lower limit.) By the way, our A. knew the planned construction budget. We actually assumed that since we did not receive any statements to the contrary, the budget would remain the same—until we had the rough breakdown. However, by then, we were already too far along (and mentally already living in our house) to start everything over again. So, the money now needs to be recouped at least approximately.
Proposal: Once I have the corresponding breakdown and the contract, I will get in touch with you. It might still take about a week. (It’s difficult to get fixed appointments out of A.)
Greetings from southern Germany
nuisette
NUISETTE schrieb:
Hello Danton,
Of course, this should be understood as an official order that will be compensated according to official regulations. The goal is to review the construction costs based on the trade services and to give a “go” as a third party.
Also, to get an explanation from another source about what turnkey according to DIN 276(?) actually means. I thought we could save money based on the specifications. When noting the specifications, I — in my opinion — only set the minimum requirements. I hoped, as mentioned, to save money this way (for example, tiling the hobby room with leftover materials, using medium-coarse plaster instead of fine plaster, textured wallpaper and click laminate). But from what I heard, these features don’t necessarily have to lower the price by a few hundred. This isn’t entirely clear to me, as I have always believed that with "turnkey" I have the choice between exclusive (gold faucets, marble stairs, Tekko wallpapers, etc.), medium, and "lower limit" standards. Somehow the DIN must be composed from around 100,000 examples to define the average standard. (Normal textured wallpaper and click laminate are almost at the lower limit for me.) By the way, our A. knew the planned construction budget. We actually assumed it would remain as agreed, since we received no statement otherwise — until we had the rough summary. But by then, we were already too far along (and already mentally living in our house) to reconsider everything. And now the money has to be recovered at least approximately.
Suggestion: As soon as I have the corresponding breakdown and therefore the contract, I will contact you. However, it may take about another week. (Real appointments with A. are hard to get.)
Greetings from southern Germany
nuisettesorry, I will get back to YOU then.
Hello Nuisette,
First of all: turnkey construction and DIN 276 are two completely different things.
The term "turnkey" is not precisely defined anywhere and therefore is not very informative. It can mean a lot or nothing at all.
DIN 276 (cost calculation in building construction) regulates the determination and breakdown of costs in building construction, defines terminology, and distinguishes cost categories, etc.
One more question:
Did you hire the architect directly and will the architect deliver your house on a turnkey basis, or did you hire a turnkey company that employs the architect to build your house? How should I understand this?
When it comes to turnkey construction, it is extremely important to know exactly what is included in the scope of work and the contracts!!!
These documents should be reviewed by an experienced construction law attorney, possibly in cooperation with me, because there are many risks for a client here!!!
Furthermore, I remain attentive to whatever comes next.
First of all: turnkey construction and DIN 276 are two completely different things.
The term "turnkey" is not precisely defined anywhere and therefore is not very informative. It can mean a lot or nothing at all.
DIN 276 (cost calculation in building construction) regulates the determination and breakdown of costs in building construction, defines terminology, and distinguishes cost categories, etc.
One more question:
Did you hire the architect directly and will the architect deliver your house on a turnkey basis, or did you hire a turnkey company that employs the architect to build your house? How should I understand this?
When it comes to turnkey construction, it is extremely important to know exactly what is included in the scope of work and the contracts!!!
These documents should be reviewed by an experienced construction law attorney, possibly in cooperation with me, because there are many risks for a client here!!!
Furthermore, I remain attentive to whatever comes next.
Hello Danton,
We are building directly with the architect. Turnkey in the sense of ready to move in. According to the architect, we have clear influence over the selection of the contractors. He issues the tenders for the trades, and we ultimately choose the contractors ourselves.
By the way, despite building on a slope, we have rooms downstairs that are counted as living area (partly hallway and pantry), but they are not really living spaces (light wells). What might be expensive is the double garage inside the house (with a terrace above), with a vestibule, and then you enter the basement.
More details once we have everything together.
We are building directly with the architect. Turnkey in the sense of ready to move in. According to the architect, we have clear influence over the selection of the contractors. He issues the tenders for the trades, and we ultimately choose the contractors ourselves.
By the way, despite building on a slope, we have rooms downstairs that are counted as living area (partly hallway and pantry), but they are not really living spaces (light wells). What might be expensive is the double garage inside the house (with a terrace above), with a vestibule, and then you enter the basement.
More details once we have everything together.
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