ᐅ Application for a New Residential Development: Selection of Plots
Created on: 11 May 2023 14:27
A
ankaheos
Hello everyone,
A large new development with 79 plots is currently being prepared near us, and we are trying to decide which plots to list in our application and in what order.
Unfortunately, the development is located north of a bypass road (federal highway, speed limit 100 km/h [62 mph]). Although a gabion wall will be built as a noise barrier (with a height of 5 m [16 ft]), we are concerned that traffic noise from the highway will still be clearly audible, especially on the southern plots. There are bridges crossing the federal highway to the west and east of the development, so the noise barrier will end at these points. We suspect that plots 4 to 8, for example, will be significantly affected by noise from the highway.
The allocation of the plots will take place in two stages: first by the city for all plots marked with an S. Afterwards (probably in Q3 or Q4 of this year), the remaining plots marked with a T will be allocated through an architect. Plots without an S or a T label will not be marketed at all.
The plots marketed by the city are priced between €315 and €330 per square meter (approximately $315 and $330 per square meter). The price that the architect will ask for is not yet known but will likely not be lower than the city’s price. In my opinion, some of the plots are too large for the price per square meter. However, the entire process (residents’ objections, environmental reports, noise assessments, zoning plan, development, etc.) has been ongoing for several years, so the zoning plan is already a few years old. It was created at a time when construction costs were 20-30% lower and the price per square meter in the city was around €200. Given our budget, only plots up to about 550 sqm (approximately 5,920 sq ft) are really an option, which rules out many already.
What is important to us when choosing a plot is a quiet location (even though there will probably be background noise from the bypass road everywhere) and a size between 350 and 550 sqm (3,770 and 5,920 sq ft). We are somewhat flexible on garden orientation, although south or southwest-facing would of course be ideal.
Among the plots marked with an S (allocation by the city), plot #37 is currently our favorite. The plots #64 to #77 are also interesting due to their orientation, but they are mostly around 600 sqm (6,460 sq ft) or larger, which is above our budget. We also cannot estimate how much noise from the highway is audible immediately behind the noise barrier.
For plots marked with a T (to be allocated later by the architect), our favorites are #29, #30, #26, and #25. We suspect that plots #29 and #30, in particular, will attract a lot of interest.
Which plots would you list in your application? Would you choose different ones? Does anyone have experience with plots located behind a noise barrier?
Best regards
A large new development with 79 plots is currently being prepared near us, and we are trying to decide which plots to list in our application and in what order.
Unfortunately, the development is located north of a bypass road (federal highway, speed limit 100 km/h [62 mph]). Although a gabion wall will be built as a noise barrier (with a height of 5 m [16 ft]), we are concerned that traffic noise from the highway will still be clearly audible, especially on the southern plots. There are bridges crossing the federal highway to the west and east of the development, so the noise barrier will end at these points. We suspect that plots 4 to 8, for example, will be significantly affected by noise from the highway.
The allocation of the plots will take place in two stages: first by the city for all plots marked with an S. Afterwards (probably in Q3 or Q4 of this year), the remaining plots marked with a T will be allocated through an architect. Plots without an S or a T label will not be marketed at all.
The plots marketed by the city are priced between €315 and €330 per square meter (approximately $315 and $330 per square meter). The price that the architect will ask for is not yet known but will likely not be lower than the city’s price. In my opinion, some of the plots are too large for the price per square meter. However, the entire process (residents’ objections, environmental reports, noise assessments, zoning plan, development, etc.) has been ongoing for several years, so the zoning plan is already a few years old. It was created at a time when construction costs were 20-30% lower and the price per square meter in the city was around €200. Given our budget, only plots up to about 550 sqm (approximately 5,920 sq ft) are really an option, which rules out many already.
What is important to us when choosing a plot is a quiet location (even though there will probably be background noise from the bypass road everywhere) and a size between 350 and 550 sqm (3,770 and 5,920 sq ft). We are somewhat flexible on garden orientation, although south or southwest-facing would of course be ideal.
Among the plots marked with an S (allocation by the city), plot #37 is currently our favorite. The plots #64 to #77 are also interesting due to their orientation, but they are mostly around 600 sqm (6,460 sq ft) or larger, which is above our budget. We also cannot estimate how much noise from the highway is audible immediately behind the noise barrier.
For plots marked with a T (to be allocated later by the architect), our favorites are #29, #30, #26, and #25. We suspect that plots #29 and #30, in particular, will attract a lot of interest.
Which plots would you list in your application? Would you choose different ones? Does anyone have experience with plots located behind a noise barrier?
Best regards
11ant schrieb:
Check the zoning plan for the cluster lines and number of floors allowed. Multi-family housing blocks are popular components of noise protection strategies. I would also consider the access points for large garages in your planning. I took a closer look at the planning area. The development is largely uniform, and the usage templates hardly differ. I found very few multi-family buildings, especially none with three or more floors. The cluster lines, which usually mark significantly different zones, here seem to mainly indicate minor differences—such as 20cm (8 inches) variations in floor, plinth, or similar heights compared to neighbors beyond the cluster lines; the height differences in terrain will hardly be noticeable. The most important distinguishing criterion here is the building envelope boundaries.
My preferred hunting ground would probably be to the left side of the playground, excluding the noise protection curve. There are significant differences in the neighboring properties here: next door and opposite or rear fence neighbors include people from the same applicant category as well as "T" plots or original owners. The "T" plots also appear to be generally intended for single-family housing. This is unusual; normally, a campus near a noise barrier would be developed by developers who densely fill it with duplexes. I also couldn’t find any indications of retention areas. On the right side of the plan, the lots near the garbage truck turnaround points are my candidates to rule out, and on the left side, those directly within hearing range of the playground (due to drunk teenagers in the evening).
If I were you, I would note the multiplied land prices on the plan: candidates priced just above threshold levels are probably the least in demand. What is known about the level of oversubscription, especially from lot allocations over the last five years?
Also, see if you can get hold of the marketing brochures for the "T" plots. You can definitely gain an informational advantage from these, and you might even consider joining the waiting list there. And always remember: the losers here are those who approach the whole thing emotionally and as a beauty contest. "We do not belong" is the true “can-do” motto here ;-)
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hanghaus2023 schrieb:
What is your budget for the plot of land?We have an overall budget that needs to fit. The larger the plot, the more compromises we would have to make with the house. To avoid making compromises on the house too painful, only plots up to a maximum of 550sqm (6000 sq ft) are an option, preferably smaller. Unfortunately, the zoning plan doesn’t offer many plots of that size because it was established at a time when land and construction costs were still 20–30% lower.
11ant schrieb:
I took a closer look at the planning area. The development is mostly uniform, with hardly any differences in land use patterns. I found very few multi-family houses, especially no three-story or taller buildings. The boundary lines that usually distinguish significantly different zones seem here to refer mainly to minor differences, i.e., floor level, base, or similar height variations of about 20cm (8 inches) compared to neighbors beyond those lines; the terrain height differences will hardly be noticeable. The most important distinguishing factor here appears to be the building envelope boundaries.Yes, the development area is very flat, and the height differences are minimal. We will definitely need to take a closer look at the building envelope boundaries when making our decision.
11ant schrieb:
My preferred area would probably be to the left of the playground on the plan, excluding the protective wall section. There are significant differences regarding neighbors: next door, opposite, or at the back as fenced neighbors, sometimes people from the same applicant category, sometimes "T"-plots or original owners. The “T” plots also appear to be generally intended for single-family homes. This is unusual; normally, a development close to a protective wall is sold to developers who build densely with duplex houses. Also, I couldn’t find any indication of retention areas. On the right side of the plan, the plots near the garbage truck turnaround points would be my rejects, and on the left side, those right next to the playground (due to noisy teenagers in the evening).Thanks for your assessment! That matches quite well with our previous thoughts.
11ant schrieb:
If I were you, I’d write the multiplied plot prices into the plan: candidates just above threshold prices are probably least in demand. What do we actually know about the degree of oversubscription, also from land allocations in the past five years?In the past, there were always significantly more interested parties than plots. But I doubt whether this will still be the case in this development. Nearby towns have recently experienced that not all plots were sold or some were returned due to rising costs. And there, the price per sqm was around €200 (around $220), which is still considerably cheaper than here.
11ant schrieb:
And see if you can get hold of the marketing materials from the seller of the “T” plots. You can definitely gain an information advantage from that, and you might even consider joining the waitlist. And always remember: the losers here are those who approach the whole thing emotionally and like a beauty contest. "We don’t belong there" is the “Tsjakka credo” in this sense ;-)We are already on the waitlist with the seller for the T-plots. By the way, since October 2019, and back then they already said sales would start "the following year." Now it looks like the T-plots won’t be marketed until the end of 2023.
X
xMisterDx15 May 2023 08:46Well, determining the plot size involves more than just “making it large enough to have plenty of space.”
In our case, the local authorities required a minimum size of 600m² (approximately 6,460 sq ft) because overly dense development or too much sealed surface area can cause drainage problems. Wherever there are houses, garages, carports, patios, paths, and so on, rainwater no longer soaks into the ground—or does so much less effectively.
Since most people don’t follow regulations about permeable paving or grass-grid stones, an additional safety margin needs to be factored in.
You also need to pay attention to what is stated in the zoning plan (building permit/planning permission). For us, it explicitly prohibited the exceeding of the site coverage ratio (floor area ratio) by outbuildings or paths, even though this is generally allowed under the state building code.
In that case, having only 500m² (approximately 5,380 sq ft) or less can quickly become a tight fit.
In our case, the local authorities required a minimum size of 600m² (approximately 6,460 sq ft) because overly dense development or too much sealed surface area can cause drainage problems. Wherever there are houses, garages, carports, patios, paths, and so on, rainwater no longer soaks into the ground—or does so much less effectively.
Since most people don’t follow regulations about permeable paving or grass-grid stones, an additional safety margin needs to be factored in.
You also need to pay attention to what is stated in the zoning plan (building permit/planning permission). For us, it explicitly prohibited the exceeding of the site coverage ratio (floor area ratio) by outbuildings or paths, even though this is generally allowed under the state building code.
In that case, having only 500m² (approximately 5,380 sq ft) or less can quickly become a tight fit.
H
hanghaus202315 May 2023 09:45I see plots here that are significantly smaller. Is the size of 550 m2 (5,920 sq ft) important to you?
Say something about the total budget and your desired house size.
I am also one of the candidates who gave up a plot. Fortunately, before the notarized contract.
Say something about the total budget and your desired house size.
I am also one of the candidates who gave up a plot. Fortunately, before the notarized contract.
ankaheos schrieb:
To keep compromises on the house from being too painful, we are only considering plots up to a maximum of 550 sqm (about 5920 sq ft), preferably smaller. Unfortunately, the development plan doesn’t offer many plots of that size, as it was created at a time when land and construction costs were still 20–30% cheaper. The development plan already seems to take into account the insight that very small plots increase the average degree of land sealing. Development plans of this "generation" typically aim for at least 450 sqm (about 4840 sq ft) for single-family house plots. When land was still “20 to 30% cheaper” than today, it had already increased by significantly more than 30% from before that. Then the nonsense of sub-300-sqm (about 3220 sq ft) plots started, which has since been reconsidered. Plots 50 to 53 in private ownership are significantly smaller than 550 sqm (or together about 551 to 552 sqm) and, to my surprise, approved for an “E” classification (single-family housing) — I would have expected “E/D” or even “E/D/H” (single-/two-family or small multi-family). Plot 54, at 451 sqm (about 4850 sq ft), would be a good fit for you. Unfortunately, the location of plots 50 to 54 suggests proximity to a public transit stop (bus/tram), which lowers their attractiveness (but probably also their price). Plot 54 would be my personal preference if I were looking for a clearly under-550-sqm plot. This tip is offered free of charge, exceptionally today ;-)
ankaheos schrieb:
We have an overall budget that has to fit. The larger the plot, the more compromises we would have to make on the house. That sounds at least a strong appetite suppressant, so I consider a fully custom design almost off the table. Turn to catalog house designs, consider the idea of shell or kit homes. Don’t dream of self-drawn floor plans, but think instead about a basic house shape (unfortunately here practically only detached houses). Moreover, this statement sounds like you already have an approximate price per square meter for the house in mind — hopefully not an outdated one.
ankaheos schrieb:
In the past there were always significantly more interested buyers than available plots. That is almost always the case, but it makes a big difference whether the ratio is about 2.5:1 or 8:1 (which was what my demand meant).
ankaheos schrieb:
I doubt if that will still be the case for this development. In the surrounding towns, recent experience showed that not all plots could be sold, or were returned due to rising costs. There, the price per sqm was around €200 (much cheaper than here). Explaining the connections in more detail would require knowledge of economics and sociology, so here is just a brief summary: the trend of returning plots is already decreasing again. What remains is that oversubscription ratios around and above 30:1 will no longer be the (regional) norm. Unfortunately, this significantly dampens municipalities’ willingness to designate new building areas (where there has already been a paradigm shift anyway).
ankaheos schrieb:
We are already on the waiting list for the T-plots with the developer. Incidentally, since October 2019, and already then it was said that sales would start “the following year.” Now it looks like the T-plots will only go on the market at the end of 2023. The “T” plots will come to market when the “S” plots approach the 75% sold mark, and approximately 40% at least have building permit pre-approvals in the pipeline. Those responsible are regularly informed of these levels “in real time” over a beer after the council meetings. But note that I did not just mention a “waiting list,” but also that you should have an informational advantage from the sales brochures. Before the lottery for municipally marketed plots, it is completely normal that professionally marketed plots are still quietly held back. But you can already hear their tails wagging ;-)
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hanghaus2023 schrieb:
Say something about the total budget and your desired house size.The desired house size is about 140-150 sqm (1507-1615 sq ft) of living space. Our total budget is around 650,000 - 700,000 EUR.
11ant schrieb:
Plots 50 to 53 in private ownership are significantly smaller than 550 sqm (or about 551 to 552 sqm (5927-5941 sq ft) combined) and, to my surprise, approved for “E” development (I would have rather expected E/D or even E/D/H). Plot 54 with 451 sqm (4853 sq ft) would then be a good fit for you as well. Unfortunately, the location of plots 50 to 54 suggests proximity to a stop (bus/tram), which reduces their appeal (but probably also their price). Plot 54 would probably be my favorite if I were looking for a plot clearly under 550 sqm. This tip is free of charge today, exceptionally ;-)Plot 54 is definitely worth considering, but according to the architect, it is not up for sale (neither S nor T). Still, we could try to find out who got the hold on it and whether it might come to market after all. Thanks for the free tip 😉
11ant schrieb:
That sounds at least discouraging; I’d say a custom design is almost off the table with this. You should look at catalog designs and consider the idea of shell homes. Don’t dream of self-drawn floor plans, but think about a basic house shape (which here unfortunately means mainly detached houses). By the way, this sounds like you already have an approximate price per square meter in mind—hopefully not an outdated one.We already have catalogs at home from various providers with different price ranges, so we are quite open 🙂 We estimate a rough price of 3,000 to 3,200 EUR per sqm (279-297 USD per sq ft) of living space. A general contractor we spoke with mentioned a similar price. So we hope that is somewhat realistic.
11ant schrieb:
That is almost always the case, but it makes a significant difference whether it's 2.5:1 or 8:1 (that’s what my question referred to).I don’t know any reliable figures for that, but in the past it was apparently closer to 8:1 than to 2.5:1.
11ant schrieb:
But I was not only referring to “waiting lists,” but that you should also gain advance information from exposés. Before the lottery for municipally marketed plots, it is completely normal for professionally marketed plots to be kept off the market.So far, communication with the architect responsible for the T-plots has been somewhat difficult. But it probably makes sense to follow up there in order to gain that information advantage.
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