ᐅ Air-to-water heat pump combined with underfloor heating is not functioning properly
Created on: 22 Sep 2021 15:34
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_Ugeen_
Hello everyone,
We moved into our single-family house in the middle of the year and are now using our air-to-water heat pump (Daikin Altherma 3 R ECH2O) for the first time. In the rooms, we decided against the standard analog controllers and chose digital controllers instead. After several discussions with Daikin and the controller manufacturer, I now understand that a valve is only opened or closed when I want to increase the temperature or not.
With the Daikin system, I can set a target room temperature. According to Daikin, this target value does not represent the minimum temperature per room but rather the "preheating value," if I understand correctly. This value was previously set at 23°C (73°F).
In the bedroom, I set the digital controller so that heating only starts when the temperature drops below 18°C (64°F). Despite this setting, the room temperature has always been 22-23°C (72-73°F), although the digital controller shows that heating is off. After changing the target room temperature from 23 to 21°C (73 to 70°F), it got a bit cooler. However, in the bathroom, heating is supposed to activate below 23°C (73°F). The temperature there is 22°C (72°F), and the digital controller indicates that heating is active. Yet, the room does not get warmer, and the floor heating does not noticeably warm up either.
Conclusion: I still have not understood the logic behind the target room temperature setting. In our previous apartment, we also had underfloor heating with analog controllers that I could adjust higher or lower. That worked wonderfully, and I felt like I could control the temperature. Here, with the air-to-water heat pump, I don’t have that feeling. Also, the towel warmers do not get truly warm (only lukewarm), which Daikin says is normal even when the dial is set to 5. This is apparently because it is a low-temperature heat pump. Without the electric booster to warm the towel warmers, they are essentially ineffective. Is this normal? Could there be an error, or do I need to use completely different settings?
If anyone has experience with this topic, I would greatly appreciate your feedback. At the moment, I feel a bit lost on this subject.
We moved into our single-family house in the middle of the year and are now using our air-to-water heat pump (Daikin Altherma 3 R ECH2O) for the first time. In the rooms, we decided against the standard analog controllers and chose digital controllers instead. After several discussions with Daikin and the controller manufacturer, I now understand that a valve is only opened or closed when I want to increase the temperature or not.
With the Daikin system, I can set a target room temperature. According to Daikin, this target value does not represent the minimum temperature per room but rather the "preheating value," if I understand correctly. This value was previously set at 23°C (73°F).
In the bedroom, I set the digital controller so that heating only starts when the temperature drops below 18°C (64°F). Despite this setting, the room temperature has always been 22-23°C (72-73°F), although the digital controller shows that heating is off. After changing the target room temperature from 23 to 21°C (73 to 70°F), it got a bit cooler. However, in the bathroom, heating is supposed to activate below 23°C (73°F). The temperature there is 22°C (72°F), and the digital controller indicates that heating is active. Yet, the room does not get warmer, and the floor heating does not noticeably warm up either.
Conclusion: I still have not understood the logic behind the target room temperature setting. In our previous apartment, we also had underfloor heating with analog controllers that I could adjust higher or lower. That worked wonderfully, and I felt like I could control the temperature. Here, with the air-to-water heat pump, I don’t have that feeling. Also, the towel warmers do not get truly warm (only lukewarm), which Daikin says is normal even when the dial is set to 5. This is apparently because it is a low-temperature heat pump. Without the electric booster to warm the towel warmers, they are essentially ineffective. Is this normal? Could there be an error, or do I need to use completely different settings?
If anyone has experience with this topic, I would greatly appreciate your feedback. At the moment, I feel a bit lost on this subject.
_Ugeen_ schrieb:
So, after I have set and adjusted the maximum heat output per room following the hydraulic balancing, I then turn the temperature control knob to the maximum setting. Unless I want a room to be a bit cooler, then I lower the temperature accordingly. Is that correct?
Honestly, I find it quite unreasonable what is being imposed on homeowners. I want to make my life simpler, not more complicated. You can see it that way or not. Compare it to computers or the internet / modern devices where you almost always need an online or app login nowadays. Not everyone is naturally familiar with that. Our world is becoming more technical, which requires certain knowledge or learning, or you have to pay someone for it.
The current problem is that those installing the heat pumps often lack sufficient knowledge or experience and have too much work, so the heating technician usually says, "Yeah, I set it roughly; the rest can be adjusted at the thermostat" (sure).
Please look up hydraulic balancing separately using a search engine. The principle is to turn all valves fully open. (This will generally cause overheating in most rooms; if it’s too warm everywhere, you can then reduce the flow temperature, etc.) Then slowly start closing individual valves until each room reaches the desired temperature. (This is a simplified explanation.) Since the system reacts slowly, you need to wait about a day each time to observe the effect of changes. Sunlight or other factors can also influence the results.
However, if done correctly and if the system isn’t otherwise flawed, you can leave the room controllers fully open or even remove the actuators.
R
RotorMotor8 Oct 2021 11:52So, if you set the thermostat to 18°C (64°F) and the room temperature rises, the heating will not turn on there.
This is completely independent of whether it is gas, air-to-water heat pump, etc.
The warmth is caused by other factors: solar radiation, adjacent rooms, people, and so on. You can start investigating there.
Edit: Of course, you can check if the thermostat is working properly!
This is completely independent of whether it is gas, air-to-water heat pump, etc.
The warmth is caused by other factors: solar radiation, adjacent rooms, people, and so on. You can start investigating there.
Edit: Of course, you can check if the thermostat is working properly!
face26 schrieb:
Yes, you can see it that way or not. Just compare it to computers, the internet, or modern devices where nowadays you almost need to register online or via an app just to use them. Not everyone can manage that naturally. Our world is becoming more technical, which requires certain knowledge or training, or you have to pay someone for it.
The current problem is that those installing heat pumps often lack the necessary knowledge or experience and have too much work, so the HVAC technician often says, "Yeah, I set it roughly, the rest can be adjusted at the thermostat" (sure).
Please look up “thermal balancing” separately in a search engine.
The principle is to turn everything fully on. (It should then become too warm almost everywhere; if it’s too warm everywhere, you could then lower the supply temperature, etc.) Then you slowly turn down individual valves until the rooms reach the appropriate temperatures (very simplified as well). Since the system is slow to respond, you need to wait a day after each adjustment to observe the changes. Sunlight or similar factors can also affect the results.
If done correctly and if the system isn’t otherwise flawed, you can leave the room thermostats fully open or even remove the actuators. That’s basically correct. Things are just constantly increasing in complexity, which becomes frustrating. And I say that as someone interested in technology.
Your simplified explanation of thermal balancing is exactly what needs to be done. That’s how I understood it from my research.
RotorMotor schrieb:
So, if you set the thermostat to 18°C (64°F) and the room gets warmer, the heating will not activate there.
This applies regardless of whether it’s gas, an air-to-water heat pump, etc.
The warmth comes from other sources: sunlight, adjacent rooms, people, etc.
That’s where you can intervene.
Edit: of course, you can check whether the thermostat is working correctly! Regarding the sun, I can darken the room using the blinds. Adjacent rooms I can only influence partly.
D
Daniel-Sp8 Oct 2021 12:16You do not set the basic configuration using the room thermostats but rather by adjusting the volume flow at the heating control valve (HKV).
Make sure to thoroughly study the topic of hydraulic and thermal balancing again.
Make sure to thoroughly study the topic of hydraulic and thermal balancing again.
Daniel-Sp schrieb:
You don’t set the basic adjustment via the room thermostats but through balancing the flow rate at the heating circuit valve (HKV).
Make sure to thoroughly read up on hydraulic and thermal balancing.I already understand that it is controlled through the flow rate.D
Daniel-Sp8 Oct 2021 19:33Okay. Then you just need the information on how each room is covered with underfloor heating.
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