ᐅ Adding an Additional Floor – Structural Integrity in Question
Created on: 19 Jan 2016 19:57
L
Lucky7Hello everyone,
my partner and I are currently considering what our future living situation should look like.
We came up with the idea that adding an additional floor to my parents’ house could be an affordable way to create enough living space. We then inquired at the building authority to see if this would be possible. According to them, a full additional story is not allowed, but raising the knee wall is an option.
The house was originally designed as a bungalow but had to be built with a pitched roof due to building regulations.
We would now like to have an architect or construction company check whether adding a floor is technically feasible and whether it would be within a budget we can afford. What kind of costs should we expect for such a cost estimate?
Since we are complete beginners and have not yet looked into this in detail, we would really appreciate any advice.
Best regards,
Lili
my partner and I are currently considering what our future living situation should look like.
We came up with the idea that adding an additional floor to my parents’ house could be an affordable way to create enough living space. We then inquired at the building authority to see if this would be possible. According to them, a full additional story is not allowed, but raising the knee wall is an option.
The house was originally designed as a bungalow but had to be built with a pitched roof due to building regulations.
We would now like to have an architect or construction company check whether adding a floor is technically feasible and whether it would be within a budget we can afford. What kind of costs should we expect for such a cost estimate?
Since we are complete beginners and have not yet looked into this in detail, we would really appreciate any advice.
Best regards,
Lili
When commissioning an architect, the relevant service phases are 1 and 2 (basic evaluation + preliminary design) according to HOAI (Official Scale of Fees for Services by Architects and Engineers) and account for 2% + 7% = 9% of the total fee. The architect’s fee is not freely negotiable but is bound by HOAI regulations.
The fee is calculated based on the so-called chargeable net construction costs (cost groups 300+400 building structure + technical equipment), the fee zone, the refurbishment surcharge, additional costs, and value-added tax. The more extensive the scope of work becomes, the higher the so-called construction additional costs (Baunebenkosten), which include the architect’s fee. Other construction additional costs are the fees for the structural engineer, possibly the surveyor, etc. These additional costs make up about 18–22% of the gross construction costs when renovating an existing building in total (not just for the architect).
The architect will provide you with a preliminary design (up to 3 variants included) and a cost estimate in consultation with you, which you can then use for your financing considerations or negotiations with the bank. The architect also clarifies all the building and planning law issues that are always associated with a construction project. The architect delivers an approval-ready preliminary plan/design within your budget.
Adding an additional storey is generally worthwhile if the existing building has sufficient structural stability and a usable shell construction. Bungalows from the 1950s/60s are usually quite suitable, although often built rather economically. If the bungalow is a prefabricated house, I would be more cautious.
The fee is calculated based on the so-called chargeable net construction costs (cost groups 300+400 building structure + technical equipment), the fee zone, the refurbishment surcharge, additional costs, and value-added tax. The more extensive the scope of work becomes, the higher the so-called construction additional costs (Baunebenkosten), which include the architect’s fee. Other construction additional costs are the fees for the structural engineer, possibly the surveyor, etc. These additional costs make up about 18–22% of the gross construction costs when renovating an existing building in total (not just for the architect).
The architect will provide you with a preliminary design (up to 3 variants included) and a cost estimate in consultation with you, which you can then use for your financing considerations or negotiations with the bank. The architect also clarifies all the building and planning law issues that are always associated with a construction project. The architect delivers an approval-ready preliminary plan/design within your budget.
Adding an additional storey is generally worthwhile if the existing building has sufficient structural stability and a usable shell construction. Bungalows from the 1950s/60s are usually quite suitable, although often built rather economically. If the bungalow is a prefabricated house, I would be more cautious.
B
Bauexperte20 Jan 2016 00:42Good evening Lilli,
Will has already pointed you in the direction of the process required when contracting individually through an architect. I would recommend taking a slightly different approach.
Adding a storey to an existing property can sometimes be like Pandora’s box, but it can also be quite straightforward. (Unfortunately, you don’t mention the size of the bungalow or the potential increase in space.) To assess this, the existing documentation—if available—can be used; if not, a structural engineer should visit to inspect the existing building. In my opinion, a specialist—at least a carpenter—should also be consulted to evaluate the roof and its construction; possibly, the existing structure and roof tiles could be reused. Hiring a structural engineer costs money; the carpenter will likely visit the site as part of a quote free of charge.
Before you and your partner invest a lot of time into considering a potential extension, you should first consult a trusted lender to discuss your financial capabilities. Only when you know exactly what funds you can access can you be sure whether the project is viable from a financial perspective. Once you have a budget figure, approach an architect or construction company (with proven experience in renovations) and present your project. Request a quote based on the assumption that adding a storey is feasible; also ask for estimates in case the bungalow requires some structural reinforcement.
Only when you have received a binding offer—preferably two (before the initial meeting, clarify with the architect whether the initial consultation is free; otherwise, you may have already entered into a contract if you say something like “go ahead”) or three—will you have a clearer idea of the project’s scope. You will know whether you can manage the construction and make a final decision.
In this context—if and when you decide to proceed—consult a tax advisor or notary beforehand to clarify the legal situation for both of you, as you are not married.
Regards, Bauexperte
Lucky7 schrieb:
Whether an additional storey is technically possible and if it fits within our budget is something we would like to have checked by an architect or construction company. What costs should we expect for such a cost estimate?
Will has already pointed you in the direction of the process required when contracting individually through an architect. I would recommend taking a slightly different approach.
Adding a storey to an existing property can sometimes be like Pandora’s box, but it can also be quite straightforward. (Unfortunately, you don’t mention the size of the bungalow or the potential increase in space.) To assess this, the existing documentation—if available—can be used; if not, a structural engineer should visit to inspect the existing building. In my opinion, a specialist—at least a carpenter—should also be consulted to evaluate the roof and its construction; possibly, the existing structure and roof tiles could be reused. Hiring a structural engineer costs money; the carpenter will likely visit the site as part of a quote free of charge.
Before you and your partner invest a lot of time into considering a potential extension, you should first consult a trusted lender to discuss your financial capabilities. Only when you know exactly what funds you can access can you be sure whether the project is viable from a financial perspective. Once you have a budget figure, approach an architect or construction company (with proven experience in renovations) and present your project. Request a quote based on the assumption that adding a storey is feasible; also ask for estimates in case the bungalow requires some structural reinforcement.
Only when you have received a binding offer—preferably two (before the initial meeting, clarify with the architect whether the initial consultation is free; otherwise, you may have already entered into a contract if you say something like “go ahead”) or three—will you have a clearer idea of the project’s scope. You will know whether you can manage the construction and make a final decision.
In this context—if and when you decide to proceed—consult a tax advisor or notary beforehand to clarify the legal situation for both of you, as you are not married.
Regards, Bauexperte
Thank you for the great advice. For a layperson, the flood of information on the internet is quite overwhelming.
It is precisely because of this "Pandora’s box" effect that we are hesitant to invest thousands of euros (more than 2,500) in an architect/structural engineer only to find out later that the project exceeds our budget. Based on your responses and my research, phases 1-2 of the design process should approximately fall within our budget.
My grandfather designed and built the house in the early 1970s. The living area is 140 sqm (1,507 sq ft), and the house is partially basemented. The extension on top would likely not exceed 105 sqm (1,130 sq ft), although as far as I know, floor area under sloped ceilings isn’t fully counted, right? The building plans with structural calculations are still available. My father doubts that an extension is possible without additional reinforcement. The existing roof structure most likely cannot be reused as is.
We are fully aware that this won’t be achievable with just a few tens of thousands of euros. However, since land and real estate prices in our area are very high and would significantly exceed our budget, we hope it might still be possible in this way. It is important to me, considering the future and possible need for assistance in old age, to stay close to our parents, which is why we face this dilemma.
Regarding the financial framework, we have already set a maximum limit for ourselves, including a 50,000 euro (approximately 54,000 USD) buffer for planning costs. Our equity would then be about 15–25%, depending on the final total. The house currently has no mortgage or loan on it.
If I understand correctly, the next steps would be to coordinate financing with our parents and the bank, and then approach the structural engineer or architect with a concrete budget (paying attention to how their consultation is compensated).
This has really helped us a lot. Thank you!
Best regards,
Lili
It is precisely because of this "Pandora’s box" effect that we are hesitant to invest thousands of euros (more than 2,500) in an architect/structural engineer only to find out later that the project exceeds our budget. Based on your responses and my research, phases 1-2 of the design process should approximately fall within our budget.
My grandfather designed and built the house in the early 1970s. The living area is 140 sqm (1,507 sq ft), and the house is partially basemented. The extension on top would likely not exceed 105 sqm (1,130 sq ft), although as far as I know, floor area under sloped ceilings isn’t fully counted, right? The building plans with structural calculations are still available. My father doubts that an extension is possible without additional reinforcement. The existing roof structure most likely cannot be reused as is.
We are fully aware that this won’t be achievable with just a few tens of thousands of euros. However, since land and real estate prices in our area are very high and would significantly exceed our budget, we hope it might still be possible in this way. It is important to me, considering the future and possible need for assistance in old age, to stay close to our parents, which is why we face this dilemma.
Regarding the financial framework, we have already set a maximum limit for ourselves, including a 50,000 euro (approximately 54,000 USD) buffer for planning costs. Our equity would then be about 15–25%, depending on the final total. The house currently has no mortgage or loan on it.
If I understand correctly, the next steps would be to coordinate financing with our parents and the bank, and then approach the structural engineer or architect with a concrete budget (paying attention to how their consultation is compensated).
This has really helped us a lot. Thank you!
Best regards,
Lili
D
Doc.Schnaggls20 Jan 2016 09:59Hello Lili,
something you should also consider in advance is securing the required loan.
Usually, such security is provided through a land charge (or mortgage). As it currently stands, the existing building along with the land belongs to your parents.
Therefore, the security would also have to be provided by your parents, unless you convert the house after renovation into two legally separate condominiums and thus establish a homeowners’ association (HOA).
Even if your parents were willing to have the land charge registered, in my opinion, there are at least two risks:
1. If, for any reason, you are no longer able to meet the financing payments and the property goes into foreclosure, not only would you lose your apartment, but your parents would lose theirs as well. This risk could be limited by granting your parents a lifelong right of residence (registered in the land register) for their apartment. However, such a right of residence significantly reduces the loan-to-value ratio.
2. Legally, in this arrangement, you (meaning you and your partner) do not actually own anything. Therefore, it must at least be considered that eventually the entire property could become subject to inheritance tax can. Setting aside potential family disputes.
Therefore, my recommendation would definitely be a real separation into two apartments and the formation of a homeowners’ association.
Best regards,
Dirk
something you should also consider in advance is securing the required loan.
Usually, such security is provided through a land charge (or mortgage). As it currently stands, the existing building along with the land belongs to your parents.
Therefore, the security would also have to be provided by your parents, unless you convert the house after renovation into two legally separate condominiums and thus establish a homeowners’ association (HOA).
Even if your parents were willing to have the land charge registered, in my opinion, there are at least two risks:
1. If, for any reason, you are no longer able to meet the financing payments and the property goes into foreclosure, not only would you lose your apartment, but your parents would lose theirs as well. This risk could be limited by granting your parents a lifelong right of residence (registered in the land register) for their apartment. However, such a right of residence significantly reduces the loan-to-value ratio.
2. Legally, in this arrangement, you (meaning you and your partner) do not actually own anything. Therefore, it must at least be considered that eventually the entire property could become subject to inheritance tax can. Setting aside potential family disputes.
Therefore, my recommendation would definitely be a real separation into two apartments and the formation of a homeowners’ association.
Best regards,
Dirk
Hello Lili,
I am adding to my previous message, also regarding Bauexperte’s suggestion: Renovating an existing building is a different matter than building a new house on undeveloped land. For such a renovation project, a detailed building survey is always essential, assessing the condition and usability of the existing structure, any damage, and the building and planning permission situation.
In addition, precise measurements and the creation of up-to-date as-built drawings must always be carried out, since older building application documents, if available, never reflect the current condition of the building. These preliminary investigations are typically conducted by an architect, possibly involving a structural engineer.
The reuse of building components and materials should be approached realistically: Very rare, old materials can be removed, cleaned, and prepared for reinstallation, but this usually is not worthwhile. An old roof structure from the 1970s and tile roofing have no value that justifies the effort required for restoration. Using old materials that do not comply with current standards also involves a risk for the planner—that risk is theirs.
These preliminary investigations take time and money but are essential prerequisites for a construction process that should aim to be as free of surprises as possible. Surprises can never be completely ruled out, but the scope of unexpected issues can be kept small. Craftsmen are not planners, and free quotes do not replace professional planning. Construction projects planned and started without this often end up in organizational dead ends with very unsatisfactory results. In the past five years, I have witnessed three such projects during construction consultations that “crashed” exactly this way. And such situations cost money as well.
I recommend scheduling an on-site consultation with an architect experienced in old buildings, have them assess the situation fundamentally, and give a preliminary cost estimate based on the available documents. If needed, you can then proceed with a more detailed cost estimate, including area calculations and a sketch of the generally feasible extension, for financing purposes. Your approach and the financial framework you described are realistic.
Dirk’s comments are also important and should be considered beforehand.
I am adding to my previous message, also regarding Bauexperte’s suggestion: Renovating an existing building is a different matter than building a new house on undeveloped land. For such a renovation project, a detailed building survey is always essential, assessing the condition and usability of the existing structure, any damage, and the building and planning permission situation.
In addition, precise measurements and the creation of up-to-date as-built drawings must always be carried out, since older building application documents, if available, never reflect the current condition of the building. These preliminary investigations are typically conducted by an architect, possibly involving a structural engineer.
The reuse of building components and materials should be approached realistically: Very rare, old materials can be removed, cleaned, and prepared for reinstallation, but this usually is not worthwhile. An old roof structure from the 1970s and tile roofing have no value that justifies the effort required for restoration. Using old materials that do not comply with current standards also involves a risk for the planner—that risk is theirs.
These preliminary investigations take time and money but are essential prerequisites for a construction process that should aim to be as free of surprises as possible. Surprises can never be completely ruled out, but the scope of unexpected issues can be kept small. Craftsmen are not planners, and free quotes do not replace professional planning. Construction projects planned and started without this often end up in organizational dead ends with very unsatisfactory results. In the past five years, I have witnessed three such projects during construction consultations that “crashed” exactly this way. And such situations cost money as well.
I recommend scheduling an on-site consultation with an architect experienced in old buildings, have them assess the situation fundamentally, and give a preliminary cost estimate based on the available documents. If needed, you can then proceed with a more detailed cost estimate, including area calculations and a sketch of the generally feasible extension, for financing purposes. Your approach and the financial framework you described are realistic.
Dirk’s comments are also important and should be considered beforehand.
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