ᐅ 2. Emergency escape routes, emergency hand cranks, and parapet height under 60 cm
Created on: 9 Feb 2022 08:08
D
Diany4605
I am hoping for some help here again because I am beginning to seriously doubt the full competence of my architect. Not only did he cost us €75,000 in KfW funding by simply not getting things done on time, now he is starting to make changes to the house that I can neither believe nor find anywhere documented.
It’s about second escape routes in the house. Hopefully, one day we will live in our new house in Baden-Württemberg. Every window in the house has electric exterior blinds without exception. The architect has already marked one window on each floor as a second escape route, which MUST be equipped with an emergency manual crank. To this day, I don’t know if this is really a mandatory requirement for exterior blinds, only for roller shutters, or if it is required at all. Online you find conflicting information—it’s a complete mess. Not only is it definitely bad from an energy-efficiency perspective to have a hole with a metal rod going from inside outwards, but with our sun protection manufacturer (Roma), it seems a radio motor cannot be combined with a crank. So now something different has to be done, which will again cost time, nerves, and above all, money.
Secondly, through a plan change, he has now lowered the window sills on these windows and others to under 60cm (24 inches). Luckily, we noticed this and asked why he had done it—now you literally can’t put anything on the sill without it looking terrible. His answer was that this is now required by regulation, that the sill at a second escape route must not be higher than 60cm (24 inches). And because it would look awkward in the same room otherwise, he extended all the windows accordingly. I absolutely can’t find any evidence for this nonsense anywhere. Everywhere I find only 120cm (47 inches) stated. Nothing about 85cm (33 inches) no longer being allowed (which was the previous measurement), and certainly nothing about 60cm (24 inches).
The third issue is that we are planning an additional one-room granny flat. Apparently, the same applies here; again, all the window sills are lowered to 60cm (24 inches). But what I also could not find is whether it can really be mandatory to design a second escape route window with an emergency manual crank in a one-room apartment (!) less than 4m (13 feet) from the front door (which is presumably the primary escape route). In the same room—that just can’t be right, can it?
Please do not comment with things like: “just leave out the exterior blinds,” or “skip the motor,” etc. I am at my wit’s end because my dream has turned into the worst nightmare of my life over the last three weeks. I am picky and a perfectionist, I know that—I just have absolutely no more trust in this architect and don’t believe a single word he says anymore. Please just try to understand me and help if you can, especially if you have any insight into the escape route regulations in Baden-Württemberg.
Thank you very much for your understanding.
It’s about second escape routes in the house. Hopefully, one day we will live in our new house in Baden-Württemberg. Every window in the house has electric exterior blinds without exception. The architect has already marked one window on each floor as a second escape route, which MUST be equipped with an emergency manual crank. To this day, I don’t know if this is really a mandatory requirement for exterior blinds, only for roller shutters, or if it is required at all. Online you find conflicting information—it’s a complete mess. Not only is it definitely bad from an energy-efficiency perspective to have a hole with a metal rod going from inside outwards, but with our sun protection manufacturer (Roma), it seems a radio motor cannot be combined with a crank. So now something different has to be done, which will again cost time, nerves, and above all, money.
Secondly, through a plan change, he has now lowered the window sills on these windows and others to under 60cm (24 inches). Luckily, we noticed this and asked why he had done it—now you literally can’t put anything on the sill without it looking terrible. His answer was that this is now required by regulation, that the sill at a second escape route must not be higher than 60cm (24 inches). And because it would look awkward in the same room otherwise, he extended all the windows accordingly. I absolutely can’t find any evidence for this nonsense anywhere. Everywhere I find only 120cm (47 inches) stated. Nothing about 85cm (33 inches) no longer being allowed (which was the previous measurement), and certainly nothing about 60cm (24 inches).
The third issue is that we are planning an additional one-room granny flat. Apparently, the same applies here; again, all the window sills are lowered to 60cm (24 inches). But what I also could not find is whether it can really be mandatory to design a second escape route window with an emergency manual crank in a one-room apartment (!) less than 4m (13 feet) from the front door (which is presumably the primary escape route). In the same room—that just can’t be right, can it?
Please do not comment with things like: “just leave out the exterior blinds,” or “skip the motor,” etc. I am at my wit’s end because my dream has turned into the worst nightmare of my life over the last three weeks. I am picky and a perfectionist, I know that—I just have absolutely no more trust in this architect and don’t believe a single word he says anymore. Please just try to understand me and help if you can, especially if you have any insight into the escape route regulations in Baden-Württemberg.
Thank you very much for your understanding.
D
Diany46059 Feb 2022 11:23Thank you all for your messages!!! Sometimes I really appreciate being able to share and then receive kind replies, it feels very good!
I couldn’t wait and called the building department directly, and was lucky to speak with a young lady who is currently studying something related to fire protection.
The thing about the parapet is nonsense; it was and still is 120cm (47 inches). The window size in Baden-Württemberg at least is set to a minimum of 90cm (35 inches) in width and 120cm (47 inches) in height, all measured as clear opening, of course.
@Hangman
The lowering of the height might be because the lintel in your case didn’t allow for the minimum window size and had to be made lower. I have to clarify this for myself, although I don’t think so, as we have raised ceilings that should rule that out. Still, it’s unacceptable that this wasn’t discussed with us and instead all windows were made lower; there are other ways to solve this for that one window.
The issue with the second escape route was confirmed by the lady; the legislator simply didn’t think it through completely. Even for one room (which also counts as a habitable room), a second escape route is mandatory. What can you say...
As for the emergency manual crank handles—they are related to the electric roller shutters. While this is not explicitly written anywhere, it is generally criticized during the building permit/planning permission process, so it must be included. For external blinds, it always depends on the case officer. Here, a “slip-through” might work, meaning trying your luck without noting it, but if you’re unlucky, you’ll have to add it after all.
That’s what we will try now and see how it goes...
Thanks again for your answers!
@Hangman
Do you really have radio motors on your Roma blinds? According to their technical data (downloaded from the homepage), it explicitly states not to use them in combination with radio motors.
I couldn’t wait and called the building department directly, and was lucky to speak with a young lady who is currently studying something related to fire protection.
The thing about the parapet is nonsense; it was and still is 120cm (47 inches). The window size in Baden-Württemberg at least is set to a minimum of 90cm (35 inches) in width and 120cm (47 inches) in height, all measured as clear opening, of course.
@Hangman
The lowering of the height might be because the lintel in your case didn’t allow for the minimum window size and had to be made lower. I have to clarify this for myself, although I don’t think so, as we have raised ceilings that should rule that out. Still, it’s unacceptable that this wasn’t discussed with us and instead all windows were made lower; there are other ways to solve this for that one window.
The issue with the second escape route was confirmed by the lady; the legislator simply didn’t think it through completely. Even for one room (which also counts as a habitable room), a second escape route is mandatory. What can you say...
As for the emergency manual crank handles—they are related to the electric roller shutters. While this is not explicitly written anywhere, it is generally criticized during the building permit/planning permission process, so it must be included. For external blinds, it always depends on the case officer. Here, a “slip-through” might work, meaning trying your luck without noting it, but if you’re unlucky, you’ll have to add it after all.
That’s what we will try now and see how it goes...
Thanks again for your answers!
@Hangman
Do you really have radio motors on your Roma blinds? According to their technical data (downloaded from the homepage), it explicitly states not to use them in combination with radio motors.
M
Myrna_Loy9 Feb 2022 12:14The legislator has definitely taken the second emergency exit into account. Especially with single-room accommodations, without it, a fire can very quickly become a deadly trap.
Out of curiosity, I actually just googled again: even in NRW, an emergency escape window must be at least 90x120 cm (35x47 inches), and the orientation does not matter. Our window is significantly larger but has two sashes with a mullion, so probably only the sash that opens directly counts. We didn’t discuss the sill height further because ours is already 60 or 45 cm (24 or 18 inches), and that was intentional. After reading up on it, it really seems possible with a standard sill height—just like you want.
Yes, we have motorized blinds with remote control. We didn’t install the emergency manual cranks, so I can’t tell you if they work, but we trust our building partner’s statements. We marked the spot where the square drive is, in case we need to retrofit it. It would be really unfortunate if we find out later that it doesn’t work 😱 For practical purposes, both the roller shutter specialists and the fire department told us that in a real emergency nobody would try to crank them manually; they would simply be kicked open. We haven’t tried that yet either 😉
Yes, we have motorized blinds with remote control. We didn’t install the emergency manual cranks, so I can’t tell you if they work, but we trust our building partner’s statements. We marked the spot where the square drive is, in case we need to retrofit it. It would be really unfortunate if we find out later that it doesn’t work 😱 For practical purposes, both the roller shutter specialists and the fire department told us that in a real emergency nobody would try to crank them manually; they would simply be kicked open. We haven’t tried that yet either 😉
D
Diany46059 Feb 2022 13:28Myrna_Loy schrieb:
The legislator has definitely considered the second escape route. Especially in single-room accommodations, it can quickly become a death trap in case of a fire without one. I don’t understand that. Are you trying to tell me that it actually makes sense not to count another emergency exit located just 4m (13 feet) away in the same cardinal direction as the front door, which faces east? Okay...
There are certainly situations where that might make sense, but in this case, the regulation should be much more detailed, because I still see it as complete nonsense (especially since a second emergency exit isn’t really an escape route; if the fire department needs to rescue me, they could just open the next front door anyway).
Hangman schrieb:
Out of curiosity, I actually just googled again: even in North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW), an emergency escape window must be at least 90x120cm (35x47 inches), and its orientation doesn’t even matter. Our window is much larger but has two sashes with a mullion, so probably only the one sash that opens fully counts. We didn’t discuss the sill height further since ours is either 60 or 45cm (24 or 18 inches), which we wanted anyway. After looking it up, it really seems that normal sill height is acceptable—just like you want.
Yes, we have motorized controls with radio operation. We didn’t install manual emergency crank handles, so I can’t tell you if they work, but we trust our builder’s statements. We marked the location of the square drive so it can be retrofitted if needed. It would obviously be annoying if we later found out it’s not possible 😱 In practice, both the external venetian blind installers and the fire department told us that in a real emergency no one would bother cranking manually; the blinds would simply be kicked out. We haven’t tried that yet either 😉 Very cool 😎. Not having to punch through the mount is also a good idea, I will definitely keep that in mind 🙂.
M
Myrna_Loy9 Feb 2022 13:46Diany4605 schrieb:
I don’t understand this. Are you really telling me that in a room where the front door faces east, it makes sense not to designate another escape route just 4m (13 feet) away that also leads in the same direction? Okay...
There are certainly situations where this might make sense, but in this case, the regulation should definitely be formulated more precisely, because I still see it as complete nonsense (especially since a second escape route is not an emergency exit—if the fire department had to rescue me, they could just open the front door next to it).
Very cool 😎. The idea of not breaking through the installation is also a good one—I will definitely keep that in mind 🙂. If the door is blocked, whether by falling debris or because you can’t find the key in smoke, you can always break a window. The fire department can do the same—if the person inside blocks the door, they can break the window. One escape route is simply not enough.
Diany4605 schrieb:
I don’t understand this. Are you seriously telling me that in a room where the front door faces east, it actually makes sense to designate a second emergency exit just 4m (13 feet) away in the same direction? Okay...
There are certainly situations where this makes sense, but in this case, the regulation should be much more detailed in its wording, because I still find it complete nonsense (especially since a second emergency exit is not an escape route; if the fire department needs to rescue me, they could just open the door right next to it). The second emergency exit is not defined by its distance from the first, but simply by its existence ;-)
Because the first emergency exit, no matter how close, could be blocked by the fire.
You are correct in noticing that it is about a second RESCUE exit, not an ESCAPE route. Be glad about that, otherwise you would have to install an external staircase on the upper floor as well ;-)
Tip: If you don’t have habitable rooms, this requirement does not apply. The keyword is basement used purely as storage. But if, for example, you want to rent out living space there, this becomes an issue.
You’re just frustrated here, and maybe rightly so, because neither the owner nor the designer addressed this aspect. That’s annoying, but it’s well-known and documented. It’s not a big deal to provide a second emergency exit on the upper floor, even with external openings. For basements, there are also solutions using shaft systems, and so on.
A few hundred thousand homeowners have managed this before you, and you can do it too.
Similar topics