ᐅ Two full stories, pass-through garage, utility room located under the stairs
Created on: 19 Aug 2015 21:39
G
Grym
We have now had several in-depth discussions since the idea of using the space under the stairs as an extension of the utility room and the idea of a direct passage to the garage have developed. Here are the findings, which are basically close to the design that one construction company now wants to finalize and price:
We have now seen the garage passage into the utility room in two private houses (one belonging to acquaintances), and it seems very practical, so we want that. The staircase is closed and basically asymmetrical. It goes up about 9 steps, then a landing, then another 6 steps. Including the landing, that totals 16 steps, or 17 risers. At the second rise, a step can easily be added or removed as needed.
My thoughts on individual rooms:
- Both children's rooms are rectangular and about 17 sqm (183 sq ft). The closet niche in the left children’s room does not seem like a limitation to me. I consider these two spacious children’s rooms, also suitable for teenagers; both have south and garden-facing windows.
-> Children's rooms: OK or not?
- The bedroom is wide enough, with a sufficiently wide passage at the bottom, east-facing; the walk-in closet has over 7 linear meters (23 feet) of shelving and an interior movement space of 1.20m (4 feet) in width.
-> Bedroom/walk-in closet: OK or not?
- The bathroom size basically results from the leftover space. I don’t like small bathrooms or toilets directly next to the bathtub. We want double sinks. We do not want a separate children’s bathroom.
-> Bathroom possibly too large for some tastes but otherwise OK or not?
- We want an open living/dining/kitchen area arranged at a corner. I have seen 4.07m (13 feet) for the living area live at acquaintances and found it good; 3.60m (12 feet) for the dining area with a 90-100cm (35-39 inch) table should fit well. The kitchen includes 6 linear meters (20 feet) of cabinets plus a large separate fridge and freezer. A sliding door is planned to avoid hitting anyone when opening; generally, both the kitchen and living room doors are planned to be open and only closed when needed. This is also how we do it at home.
-> Living/dining/kitchen: OK or not?
- The hallway is now 1.80m (6 feet) wide. We have seen 2.00m (6.5 feet) (very generous; wasteful?), 1.30m (4 feet) in a semi-detached house (functional, works but not impressive), and 1.40-1.50m (4.5-5 feet) in show homes (neutral impression). The coat niche is planned with hangers perpendicular to the hallway direction for jackets, etc. Possibly, another wardrobe will be added in the utility/transfer room to the garage because it is used frequently. Larger shoe storage will also be in the utility room, but some pairs (for me only one, for my wife a few) can remain in the hallway (e.g., between the WC door and utility room door or between the workroom door and the exterior wall or in the coat niche). The WC is planned with a shower mainly for visual reasons, though it will be used occasionally. At 2.5-3.0 sqm (27-32 sq ft), it’s visually too small for a stay room (even if one only spends a few minutes there). The work area in front of the connection niche is partly a passage area and partly for storing drink crates, which can be moved when needed. Next to this is about 2 linear meters (6.5 feet) of additional cabinetry; opposite are the washing machine and dryer under the stairs. The hot water tank could possibly be placed in the rear corner of the utility room since it normally does not require access. (The landing is at the 10th step; the height under the landing and the height of the hot water tank must be calculated and planned in detail.) Or would another necessary technical device be suitable there? If not, that space can remain unused. Next to the washing machine and dryer, there is at least 1.20m (4 feet) available for other appliances or the mentioned second wardrobe. If necessary, the approx. 2 linear meters (6.5 feet) of cabinets will have to be replaced by essential technical equipment, but there aren’t that many devices after all.
-> Hallway, utility room, WC/shower: OK or not?
- There is also a study room, let’s call it the PC room. It houses the computer, some cabinets, and additional storage primarily for documents.
-> Study room: OK?
Now for the details:
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 600 sqm (6460 sq ft)
Slope: 2-7%, mostly leveled by us
Floor area ratio: 0.4 plus 50% allowance
Site coverage ratio: none
Building envelope, building line, boundary: none
Adjacent development: none
Number of parking spaces: 2 required
Number of floors: maximum 2
Roof type: single-pitch or gable roof, 25-40 degrees -> planned: gable roof 25 degrees (25°C - 77°F)
Architectural style: not finalized; possibly modern with light plaster, anthracite-colored roof tiles, and dark-tinted exterior windows
Orientation: south-southwest
Maximum heights/limits: eaves height 6.30m (20.7 feet)
Other requirements: corner plot, play street to the north and east; garage or carport only behind the street-facing building line, i.e., at the current location or directly in the south garden; so only possible at the current location
Client requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: 2 full floors, everything else secondary; if necessary, also 2.25m (7.4 feet) knee-wall and gable roof
Basement/floors: 2 full floors on a slab foundation
Number of occupants, ages: as shown
Space needs on ground and upper floors: as depicted
Office: family use or home office? PC room, filing cabinet
Guest bedrooms per year: no
Open or closed architecture: rather open
Traditional or modern construction: hm? Brick or knee-wall plus external insulation, so I would say modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: yes, see plan
Number of dining seats: 3 or 4 and flexible
Fireplace: not in a highly insulated new build – no
Music/sound system: surround sound (no priority; no sound in other rooms from the central system; integrated plug-sized radios with Bluetooth receivers and plug-sized speakers planned for kitchen, WC, and bathroom)
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: double garage with storage room at the back for garden tools, bicycles, children's toys, etc.
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special features/daily routine: no
We have now seen the garage passage into the utility room in two private houses (one belonging to acquaintances), and it seems very practical, so we want that. The staircase is closed and basically asymmetrical. It goes up about 9 steps, then a landing, then another 6 steps. Including the landing, that totals 16 steps, or 17 risers. At the second rise, a step can easily be added or removed as needed.
My thoughts on individual rooms:
- Both children's rooms are rectangular and about 17 sqm (183 sq ft). The closet niche in the left children’s room does not seem like a limitation to me. I consider these two spacious children’s rooms, also suitable for teenagers; both have south and garden-facing windows.
-> Children's rooms: OK or not?
- The bedroom is wide enough, with a sufficiently wide passage at the bottom, east-facing; the walk-in closet has over 7 linear meters (23 feet) of shelving and an interior movement space of 1.20m (4 feet) in width.
-> Bedroom/walk-in closet: OK or not?
- The bathroom size basically results from the leftover space. I don’t like small bathrooms or toilets directly next to the bathtub. We want double sinks. We do not want a separate children’s bathroom.
-> Bathroom possibly too large for some tastes but otherwise OK or not?
- We want an open living/dining/kitchen area arranged at a corner. I have seen 4.07m (13 feet) for the living area live at acquaintances and found it good; 3.60m (12 feet) for the dining area with a 90-100cm (35-39 inch) table should fit well. The kitchen includes 6 linear meters (20 feet) of cabinets plus a large separate fridge and freezer. A sliding door is planned to avoid hitting anyone when opening; generally, both the kitchen and living room doors are planned to be open and only closed when needed. This is also how we do it at home.
-> Living/dining/kitchen: OK or not?
- The hallway is now 1.80m (6 feet) wide. We have seen 2.00m (6.5 feet) (very generous; wasteful?), 1.30m (4 feet) in a semi-detached house (functional, works but not impressive), and 1.40-1.50m (4.5-5 feet) in show homes (neutral impression). The coat niche is planned with hangers perpendicular to the hallway direction for jackets, etc. Possibly, another wardrobe will be added in the utility/transfer room to the garage because it is used frequently. Larger shoe storage will also be in the utility room, but some pairs (for me only one, for my wife a few) can remain in the hallway (e.g., between the WC door and utility room door or between the workroom door and the exterior wall or in the coat niche). The WC is planned with a shower mainly for visual reasons, though it will be used occasionally. At 2.5-3.0 sqm (27-32 sq ft), it’s visually too small for a stay room (even if one only spends a few minutes there). The work area in front of the connection niche is partly a passage area and partly for storing drink crates, which can be moved when needed. Next to this is about 2 linear meters (6.5 feet) of additional cabinetry; opposite are the washing machine and dryer under the stairs. The hot water tank could possibly be placed in the rear corner of the utility room since it normally does not require access. (The landing is at the 10th step; the height under the landing and the height of the hot water tank must be calculated and planned in detail.) Or would another necessary technical device be suitable there? If not, that space can remain unused. Next to the washing machine and dryer, there is at least 1.20m (4 feet) available for other appliances or the mentioned second wardrobe. If necessary, the approx. 2 linear meters (6.5 feet) of cabinets will have to be replaced by essential technical equipment, but there aren’t that many devices after all.
-> Hallway, utility room, WC/shower: OK or not?
- There is also a study room, let’s call it the PC room. It houses the computer, some cabinets, and additional storage primarily for documents.
-> Study room: OK?
Now for the details:
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 600 sqm (6460 sq ft)
Slope: 2-7%, mostly leveled by us
Floor area ratio: 0.4 plus 50% allowance
Site coverage ratio: none
Building envelope, building line, boundary: none
Adjacent development: none
Number of parking spaces: 2 required
Number of floors: maximum 2
Roof type: single-pitch or gable roof, 25-40 degrees -> planned: gable roof 25 degrees (25°C - 77°F)
Architectural style: not finalized; possibly modern with light plaster, anthracite-colored roof tiles, and dark-tinted exterior windows
Orientation: south-southwest
Maximum heights/limits: eaves height 6.30m (20.7 feet)
Other requirements: corner plot, play street to the north and east; garage or carport only behind the street-facing building line, i.e., at the current location or directly in the south garden; so only possible at the current location
Client requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: 2 full floors, everything else secondary; if necessary, also 2.25m (7.4 feet) knee-wall and gable roof
Basement/floors: 2 full floors on a slab foundation
Number of occupants, ages: as shown
Space needs on ground and upper floors: as depicted
Office: family use or home office? PC room, filing cabinet
Guest bedrooms per year: no
Open or closed architecture: rather open
Traditional or modern construction: hm? Brick or knee-wall plus external insulation, so I would say modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: yes, see plan
Number of dining seats: 3 or 4 and flexible
Fireplace: not in a highly insulated new build – no
Music/sound system: surround sound (no priority; no sound in other rooms from the central system; integrated plug-sized radios with Bluetooth receivers and plug-sized speakers planned for kitchen, WC, and bathroom)
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: double garage with storage room at the back for garden tools, bicycles, children's toys, etc.
Utility garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special features/daily routine: no
Some additional details about the utility room. I changed the door swing, so there will definitely be no issues with the stairs. The point marked 280 is the last step. 297.5cm (9 ft 9 in) would then be the floor level of the upper floor. The heating unit is currently planned to be under the step that has a height of 210cm (6 ft 11 in). A few centimeters to the right, and the heating would be under the step with a height of 227.5cm (7 ft 6 in). Of course, this depends on the type of heating system or hot water storage tank. For example, a ground source heat pump with a combined storage tank comes in a height of about 180–185cm (5 ft 11 in – 6 ft 1 in) and a base dimension of 60x60cm (24x24 inches) including the tank. A gas condensing boiler might even fit in the connection niche, but that would require a separate storage tank.
If necessary, some additional cupboard space will have to be sacrificed. There is still plenty of storage space in the garage. The coat rack is now completely in the hallway. The study will also serve as extra storage space. Otherwise, items like food will go into the kitchen (pantry cabinet, etc.).
The dryer and washing machine should definitely fit under a platform that has a height of 175cm (5 ft 9 in).
Edit: By the way, there is also an attic.
If necessary, some additional cupboard space will have to be sacrificed. There is still plenty of storage space in the garage. The coat rack is now completely in the hallway. The study will also serve as extra storage space. Otherwise, items like food will go into the kitchen (pantry cabinet, etc.).
The dryer and washing machine should definitely fit under a platform that has a height of 175cm (5 ft 9 in).
Edit: By the way, there is also an attic.
You cannot calculate from the top edge of the stair tread; you need to calculate from the underside of the probable concrete slope. You should subtract at least 30 cm (12 inches) from the top edge of the tread.
Better kitchen storage is provided by cabinets 40 to 60 cm (16 to 24 inches) wide with internal pull-outs, rather than 30 cm (12 inches) wide pull-out pantry cabinets.
Better kitchen storage is provided by cabinets 40 to 60 cm (16 to 24 inches) wide with internal pull-outs, rather than 30 cm (12 inches) wide pull-out pantry cabinets.
Grym schrieb:
If necessary, more cabinet space will have to be sacrificed.Yep, you already have so much. (<- that was meant sarcastically)
Grym schrieb:
The dryer and washing machine should definitely fit under a platform.Strange, nowadays washing machines and dryers are usually placed on a platform because it’s easier on the back. With you, it’s not just your back but also your head that bumps into the staircase.
Grym schrieb:
Edit: There’s also the attic, by the way.Yes, you could use that for the clean laundry—the utility room, which is basically a “mudroom hallway,” doesn’t have any space left for that.
Sorry, but I don’t agree with the idea of a “small utility room as a passageway” and the niche under the stairs being used as a laundry area. The space under the stairs is valuable, no question, but not for appliances you operate and which require valuable shelf space above them because no other space is available.
And I have to be honest here: I get the feeling that you don’t really manage the household yet. I already doubted it with the kitchen (Grym and his partner apparently go from the front door to the kitchen only twice a week, plus the topic of the “living area is the living room” (okay, not every couple or family is active with hobbies and gardening, sometimes you just flop on the couch—probably my subjective judgment), but now the laundry routine... For a two-person household (and I don’t wash very often), I have two laundry baskets that are constantly full and standing in the utility room, sometimes two piles of sorted laundry on the floor (e.g. whites and colored clothes), then washed laundry that can’t go in the dryer... and then my husband walks through the utility room, right in front of those machines, with muddy shoes...
For me, household management was and still is not the most important topic, but—if anything, all the more—it has to work. I don’t see that here.
ypg schrieb:
Yeah, you have plenty too. (<- that was meant ironically) Just over 2m (6 ft 7 in) left. Heating and mechanical ventilation for indoor air quality are already planned. The utility room has a decent 8.5 sqm (91 sq ft), even if a small part of it is under the stairs.
Strange, nowadays people put washing machines and dryers on a pedestal because it’s easier on the back. For you, it’s not just your back but also your head that hits the stairs At 1.75m (5 ft 9 in) height, the clearance underneath is maybe 1.55m (5 ft 1 in). You can still put those appliances on a pedestal there. Of course, we’ll make sure they either line up flush with the wall above or maybe are set back about 5cm (2 inches) so you don’t hit your head.
Yes, then you could use it for the clean laundry – there’s no more space for that in the utility room, which doubles as a “mudroom” Maybe the laundry can also dry in the office, or in the dressing room, or outside, or in the dryer, or...
Sorry, but I really don’t like the idea of a small utility room serving as a hallway and the stairwell being used as a laundry area. The space under the stairs is valuable, no question, but not for appliances you have to operate and that require precious additional surface space because it’s missing elsewhere. The passage from the utility room to the garage is actually brilliant. And don’t forget, a lot can be stored in the garage as well—at least that’s what we have seen.
And I have to be honest: it feels like you don’t really run a household here. I already doubted that with the kitchen (Grym and his wife only go from the front door to the kitchen twice a week, then the “living room is the main gathering place” thing — okay, not every couple or family is active with hobbies and gardening, some just flop on the couch, probably my subjective view), but now the laundry ritual… I (and I don’t wash often) have two laundry baskets in the utility room for a two-person household that are constantly full, sometimes two piles of sorted laundry on the floor (like whites and colors), then washed laundry that can’t go in the dryer… and then my husband walks through the utility room right in front of those machines with muddy shoes...
Housekeeping was and still is not the most important thing for me, but — or maybe because of that — it has to work. I don’t see that here. We don’t have a garden yet, but it should be low-maintenance in the future. So first a large patio, lots of lawn, and maybe some plants that can handle the natural climate of our zone, meaning they don’t need artificial watering and grow by themselves. I don’t know if such plants exist.
Right now, our hobby is our daughter, so no time or desire for extensive household chores, and I just did about 200 EUR worth of shopping on Friday… yes, I really hope that happens no more than twice a week, preferably less. Shopping is a huge waste of time. And when I do go, I have to bring in everything possible.
By the way, the laundry basket is supposed to go in the bathroom. After all, that’s where you take off your clothes. I could easily imagine having two laundry baskets there—there’s space.
All in all, you have to draw the line somewhere. If in this 157 sqm (1,690 sq ft) floor plan the biggest problems are the utility room with 8.5 sqm (91 sq ft) (not fully usable because of a sloping ceiling in parts), and maybe the issue that people coming from the guest WC might run into others entering the house through the front door, then I find that acceptable.
Or are there concrete suggestions for improvement without questioning the entire layout of living/dining/kitchen in an open corner arrangement, office on the ground floor, WC with shower on the ground floor, utility room with passage to the garage, garage placement and the orientation of all rooms, etc.?
I am doing my best.
However, I haven’t come across any concrete suggestions or anything similar so far.
In our current apartment, we don’t have a utility room at all, not even a storage space. Items that, for example, are kept in the hallway and that I would like to store in a utility room probably take up about 1 sq m (11 sq ft). Separate storage space for garden tools/bicycles/outdoor children’s toys is a different matter. Additional storage options include the study, the kitchen for supplies, etc. (7 linear meters (23 linear feet) of cabinets including the refrigerator), dressing room (about 7 linear meters (23 linear feet) of cabinets, we currently have about 3), and so on.
The question is, what MUST be included in the utility/utility room? What space is not currently missing in the apartment but will become missing in the future?
In the end, it might just become a pure technical/laundry room with hardly any storage options. But in my opinion, we don’t need that much storage space like that anyway. Even in the garage, a shelf can still fit.
We also received information from a modular home provider that the utility room should be about 8 sq m (86 sq ft) in size. However, their calculation included not only our appliances and washer/dryer but also photovoltaic equipment like inverters and a large lead-acid battery. For us, it would be 8.5 sq m (91 sq ft) without the lead battery, inverter, and the like.
However, I haven’t come across any concrete suggestions or anything similar so far.
In our current apartment, we don’t have a utility room at all, not even a storage space. Items that, for example, are kept in the hallway and that I would like to store in a utility room probably take up about 1 sq m (11 sq ft). Separate storage space for garden tools/bicycles/outdoor children’s toys is a different matter. Additional storage options include the study, the kitchen for supplies, etc. (7 linear meters (23 linear feet) of cabinets including the refrigerator), dressing room (about 7 linear meters (23 linear feet) of cabinets, we currently have about 3), and so on.
The question is, what MUST be included in the utility/utility room? What space is not currently missing in the apartment but will become missing in the future?
In the end, it might just become a pure technical/laundry room with hardly any storage options. But in my opinion, we don’t need that much storage space like that anyway. Even in the garage, a shelf can still fit.
We also received information from a modular home provider that the utility room should be about 8 sq m (86 sq ft) in size. However, their calculation included not only our appliances and washer/dryer but also photovoltaic equipment like inverters and a large lead-acid battery. For us, it would be 8.5 sq m (91 sq ft) without the lead battery, inverter, and the like.
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