Hello everyone,
I have a question. We got in touch with an architect through an acquaintance, but we are not really satisfied with the process and the work. Therefore, we want to part ways with the architect since we realize we don't really get along.
There is no contract that we have signed. When I brought up the topic of costs during the first meeting, he said he would charge the minimum rate according to HOAI and would first create a draft. When I asked what would happen if we did not agree, he told us not to worry and that something like that wouldn’t happen.
Now it has come to that, and my question is how to proceed best and what the architect can charge for his services.
What has been done so far: In the first meeting, we said that we wanted a house with 160 m² (1,720 sq ft) and a maximum all-in cost of 260,000 EUR (approximately). I explicitly asked if this was feasible, and he said it was achievable.
After presenting the first draft, the costs were estimated at 320,000 EUR. I said that while it was a nice design, the costs didn’t fit and that we needed to reduce them. We considered the draft and gave the architect changes since he had forgotten a room. Of course, we also told him to reduce costs. Our changes were implemented, but at the next meeting, there was no updated cost estimate. The architect said we would still be around 320,000 EUR. He hadn’t included blinds and underfloor heating in the first cost calculation. Regarding the originally stated budget of 260,000 EUR from the first meeting, he then said this amount was without his architect fee, although I had explicitly said it included his fee.
We then asked for an alternative floor plan for the next meeting, since the previous plan was a split-level house due to our sloping plot. He presented an alternative draft (I think it was some standard layout from his drawer), but without a cost breakdown. He said it would not be any cheaper than the first draft.
So, we keep going in circles without any real progress in reducing costs.
We provided further changes to the first floor plan. The architect finally reduced the building volume somewhat, and now we are at a cost of 300,000 EUR. He proudly noted in his letter that we have now reached our budget, if we deduct our planned own contribution (self-performed work) from the construction costs. I have to say, however, that after the second draft we raised our budget to a maximum of 280,000 EUR.
Now the floor plan no longer appeals to us because of all the compromises (for example, access to the utility room through the guest bathroom), and we don’t really trust the architect anymore (caused by repeated reminders about the budget, the drawn-in masonry fireplace which has still not been considered, and so on).
The fact is, our budget has still not been met, and we will not reach it without significantly downsizing. That has very little to do with our original 160 m² and 260,000 EUR to 280,000 EUR budget.
Now my question is how best to end this misunderstanding and what the architect can charge us. He should not have worked for free, but I also don’t want him to come up with an excessive bill. Honestly, I don’t even know in which service phase we currently are. We have partly completed Phase 1 – basic evaluation, but what exactly is the difference between Phase 2 and 3? In my opinion, we are in Phase 2 – preliminary design plus cost estimation. So far, we have only received colorful prints with exterior views and occasional cost estimates, but is that already considered design development?
I would be grateful for your advice on how to proceed best.
I have a question. We got in touch with an architect through an acquaintance, but we are not really satisfied with the process and the work. Therefore, we want to part ways with the architect since we realize we don't really get along.
There is no contract that we have signed. When I brought up the topic of costs during the first meeting, he said he would charge the minimum rate according to HOAI and would first create a draft. When I asked what would happen if we did not agree, he told us not to worry and that something like that wouldn’t happen.
Now it has come to that, and my question is how to proceed best and what the architect can charge for his services.
What has been done so far: In the first meeting, we said that we wanted a house with 160 m² (1,720 sq ft) and a maximum all-in cost of 260,000 EUR (approximately). I explicitly asked if this was feasible, and he said it was achievable.
After presenting the first draft, the costs were estimated at 320,000 EUR. I said that while it was a nice design, the costs didn’t fit and that we needed to reduce them. We considered the draft and gave the architect changes since he had forgotten a room. Of course, we also told him to reduce costs. Our changes were implemented, but at the next meeting, there was no updated cost estimate. The architect said we would still be around 320,000 EUR. He hadn’t included blinds and underfloor heating in the first cost calculation. Regarding the originally stated budget of 260,000 EUR from the first meeting, he then said this amount was without his architect fee, although I had explicitly said it included his fee.
We then asked for an alternative floor plan for the next meeting, since the previous plan was a split-level house due to our sloping plot. He presented an alternative draft (I think it was some standard layout from his drawer), but without a cost breakdown. He said it would not be any cheaper than the first draft.
So, we keep going in circles without any real progress in reducing costs.
We provided further changes to the first floor plan. The architect finally reduced the building volume somewhat, and now we are at a cost of 300,000 EUR. He proudly noted in his letter that we have now reached our budget, if we deduct our planned own contribution (self-performed work) from the construction costs. I have to say, however, that after the second draft we raised our budget to a maximum of 280,000 EUR.
Now the floor plan no longer appeals to us because of all the compromises (for example, access to the utility room through the guest bathroom), and we don’t really trust the architect anymore (caused by repeated reminders about the budget, the drawn-in masonry fireplace which has still not been considered, and so on).
The fact is, our budget has still not been met, and we will not reach it without significantly downsizing. That has very little to do with our original 160 m² and 260,000 EUR to 280,000 EUR budget.
Now my question is how best to end this misunderstanding and what the architect can charge us. He should not have worked for free, but I also don’t want him to come up with an excessive bill. Honestly, I don’t even know in which service phase we currently are. We have partly completed Phase 1 – basic evaluation, but what exactly is the difference between Phase 2 and 3? In my opinion, we are in Phase 2 – preliminary design plus cost estimation. So far, we have only received colorful prints with exterior views and occasional cost estimates, but is that already considered design development?
I would be grateful for your advice on how to proceed best.
You can simply run a HOAI calculator and roughly estimate the values.
If you assume a project cost of 300,000 euros (about $320,000) for the calculation, the fees for phases 1 and 2 amount to approximately 3,600 euros (about $3,800) net.
That is a considerable sum. However, the problem you now face is that you don’t have a contract. The second issue is that often an architect is only paid after a plan suitable for obtaining a building permit/planning permission is completed. This plan is developed during phases 1 to 4.
I would first try to have a conversation to clarify exactly these questions.
If you assume a project cost of 300,000 euros (about $320,000) for the calculation, the fees for phases 1 and 2 amount to approximately 3,600 euros (about $3,800) net.
That is a considerable sum. However, the problem you now face is that you don’t have a contract. The second issue is that often an architect is only paid after a plan suitable for obtaining a building permit/planning permission is completed. This plan is developed during phases 1 to 4.
I would first try to have a conversation to clarify exactly these questions.
260,000 euros including planning fees (honorarium) and additional construction costs, or excluding additional costs?
A split-level house is probably somewhat more expensive, as is building on a slope.
Would it make sense to analyze your requirements again? What don’t you like anymore? I believe building a house is almost always a compromise – we wanted a castle and ended up building more of a cabin (well, not that bad).
I would also agree with Koempysonst – just ask what they would charge for the planning services so far. Simply explain that, for now, you cannot afford the house as it is.
A split-level house is probably somewhat more expensive, as is building on a slope.
Would it make sense to analyze your requirements again? What don’t you like anymore? I believe building a house is almost always a compromise – we wanted a castle and ended up building more of a cabin (well, not that bad).
I would also agree with Koempysonst – just ask what they would charge for the planning services so far. Simply explain that, for now, you cannot afford the house as it is.
U
Username_wahl13 Jul 2015 20:43We initially planned a house for 250,000 but are now building one for around 350,000. Unfortunately, our architect can’t work miracles either...
Hello, of course it is shocking at first to see how much a house costs, and then you realize what actually remains ;(
I don’t want the architect to be a mind reader, but if I say at the first meeting that our total budget is 260,000 € (about $280,000), then shouldn’t he tell me right away that we can’t manage with that? Instead of saying it’s possible and then suddenly the first draft comes in at 320,000 € (about $345,000). It’s not about whether I can afford it or not at this point, but that he has to stick to the given specifications, meaning the budget. And so far, he hasn’t managed that.
Anyway, thanks for your feedback. I will have a talk with the architect and see what comes out of it. I’m just afraid he might charge more than what is actually delivered.
I don’t want the architect to be a mind reader, but if I say at the first meeting that our total budget is 260,000 € (about $280,000), then shouldn’t he tell me right away that we can’t manage with that? Instead of saying it’s possible and then suddenly the first draft comes in at 320,000 € (about $345,000). It’s not about whether I can afford it or not at this point, but that he has to stick to the given specifications, meaning the budget. And so far, he hasn’t managed that.
Anyway, thanks for your feedback. I will have a talk with the architect and see what comes out of it. I’m just afraid he might charge more than what is actually delivered.
W
Wanderdüne14 Jul 2015 07:49Agreements without a contract are always problematic, especially when the amounts involved are substantial.
Ultimately, it will depend on the scope of the agreement that can be assumed based on the actions of both parties. Payment claims could then be derived from this.
In the worst case, everything has to be thoroughly reviewed, including verifying whether the current design actually complies with the budget.
Ultimately, it will depend on the scope of the agreement that can be assumed based on the actions of both parties. Payment claims could then be derived from this.
In the worst case, everything has to be thoroughly reviewed, including verifying whether the current design actually complies with the budget.
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